Jason
et al
well
yes - i see where you're coming from - but however you spell it -
magic
is not just a set of techniques - imo - but more defined by some sort of
gnostic or spiritual quest - rather than some sort of
'failed' technology
(the
old frazier view that so influenced Crowley and his
successors).
IMO every technique has an 'implicite'
theology.
When
you say you can detect a bit of magic in all religions -
i
think you are falling back into the old mode of thinking -
whereby you have magical techniques on one side and the
search for god etc.,
on the
other. Many religions use certain techniques to prove the validity of their
central beliefs
- ie. the magic has a religious purpose.
Hence
JCs practice of exorcism was seen as proof of the coming kingdom of god -
it
wasn't some kind of sideline.
Likewise in tantrism - the performance of the siddhas
requires special religious devotion
by the
operator - the two things are inextricably linked.
There
may be a special case in roman egypt - which was a very lively time when
essentially a new religion,
or new
version of the old Egyptian faith - based around the Greek Magical Papyri -
was in construction -
that's
HD Betz's opinion.
' love and do
what you will'
mogg
PS: I'm not proposing this as the view of all
practitioners - i am aware that many modern practioners have no space in their
paradigms for the religious sensibility. Even so i have a personal gripe with
those commentors / experts who don't seem interested in what some of the mystoi
actually believe and who continue to peddle the idea that magick has no
mystical component. That's just not my
experience.
-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study
of Magic [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of jason
winslade
Sent: 02 March 2006 19:04
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:
[ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Some Inherent Problems in Researching Magical
Practice
Maybe you're talking about the difference between magic and Magick.
It seems like lowercase magic is a practice that can be utilized within other
religions. As we've seen there's such a thing as Christian magic or
Kabbalistic magic. Categorically, this seems like it's in the same vein as
prayer - a technique that you can use to practice your religion. Though I know
it's a controversial spelling, Magick might be used to indicate the particular
religion that you're referring to (I'm guessing an eclectic blend of Hermetic,
Kabbalistic, and Pagan beliefts? - but I guess it's up to the practitioner to
define).
Dear
All
The problem I have with this discussion, is that i see Magick as
a
'religion'
- or path to spiritual enlightenment and liberation - i'm
pretty su! re many
other of the magi see it in a similar way (and even
some academic
commentators). Given this, i wonder how appropriate these
questions about
'mechanism' really are - would they be directed at other
religions??
'Love and do what you will'
mogg
PS: Ritner
(the author of a prize winning book on the mechanics of egyptian
magick)
says that in the Egyptian context, its study has not been well
served by
anthropologists such as Malinowski et al.
had a
similar take. Magic is seen as a
psychological mechanism for confidence
building in the
face of uncertainty.
That said, I'm interested in
the interface between
magic and PSI, or parapsychological studies
which
addresses things such as remote viewing, healing at a
distance,
synchronities, ect. Biogenetic
structuralism provides one potential
theoretical
framework for discussing how inner change within one's
own
wetware potential influences the ! world at large
through nonlocal
channels.
I don't know of any research that's been done
on
practicing ceremonial magicians with regards to PSI,
but
organizations like the Institute of Noetic
Sciences (www.noetic.org) have
a growing databased of
studies on the role of the mind in
nonlocal
phenomenon.
--- Richard Ramsay
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> I've been trying to catch up on
emails. This seems
> to toch on Stuart Vyse's Believing in Magic.
The
> psychology of superstition. He talks about a
> baseball
player using magic or ritual as it's an
> uncertain world on the
pitch.
>
> I suppose that one can undertake activities in
a
> de-spirited sense but isn't there a hymn (by George
>
Herbert of Bemerton?) that says something like,
>
> 'Who sweeps
a room in the name divine
> Makes that and the action
fine'?
>
> But I suppopse that here I'm onflating magic
and
> religion.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
RR
>
> In an email dated Thu, 16 2 2006 11:15:04 pm GMT,
>
Amy Hale <[log in to unmask]>writes:
>
> >Absolutely! Or
potato peeling, or treadmill
> jogging, or hedge cutting...If
>
>dancing, why not racquetball?
> >
> >Amy
>
>
> >On 2/16/06, Al Billings <[log in to unmask]>
>
wrote:
> >>
> >> Mark wrote:
>
>>
> >> > If it involves your nervous system,
as
> everything
> >> > does, it involves
conscioussness.
> >>
> >> So Volleyball is magic?
:-)
> >>
> >> Al
> >>
>
>
>
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