 |
 |
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Hi Tom, I am looking at the TCI map and S. Agostino is the first church that one hits from Porta Tufi. S.M d. Servi is near Porta Romana, San Domenico is at Porta Fontebranda, S. Francesco is near P. Ovile. Not as cleanly laid out at the gates as in Gubbio but it seems as if the mendicants turfed out these gates in Siena. Best, Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "F. Thomas Luongo" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [M-R] beggars and saints' charity > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Sharon, > > This is getting a bit off the topic, but I'm not sure you're right about > Siena. > I don't think the mendicant churches are positioned at gates, at least in > any > important sense. The main gates were the Porta Camollia in the north and > the > Porta Romana in the south, which correspond to the city's placement on the > pilgrimage route, the Via Francigena. Certainly the Dominican and > Franciscan > churches are well off that route, outside the most trafficked and valuable > property in the city. There is no connection--as far as I know--between > the > mendicant orders and the gates of Siena. > > On the other hand, those gates would be logical places for beggars to > gather, > because of the traffic. Also, I believe that the areas just inside and > outside > those gates were associated with hospitals (for obvious reasons) and with > communities of anchorites, at least up to the time of the Black Death. > These > areas of the city and the institutions/individuals living there show up in > both > statutes and testaments as standard targets for both civic and individual > almsgiving. > > Tom > > -- > F. Thomas Luongo > Fellow, American Academy in Rome, 2005-2006 > Associate Professor of History > Tulane University > > > Quoting Sharon Dale <[log in to unmask]>: > >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> Judging from some Italian cities, such as Gubbio, the locations of >> mendicant >> churches often tended to be positioned near, as in just inside, one of >> the >> city gates. It would seem as if one might expect to find these mendicants >> begging at the apposite gate. I realize that not all mendicant churches >> are >> so positioned but if one thinks of Siena, the Dominican, Franciscan and >> Augustinian churches are each near very separate gates of the city. >> Best, >> Sharon >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hal Cain" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:26 AM >> Subject: Re: [M-R] beggars and saints' charity >> >> >> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >> > culture >> > >> > Ann Ball wrote: >> > >> >> But wouldn't mendicant orders all be religious, so their beggins would >> >> not be of the common type of person who was just a poor person, widow, >> >> leper, etc.? >> > >> > I think that's a bit too much of a generalization. >> > >> > I agree with you that (humanly speaking) groups or communities tend to >> > favour their own; but it's hard to be in a religious community, exposed >> > to >> > a yearly cycle of readings in the divine office and the mass, and >> > totally >> > miss out on the message of the Good Samaritan (that *anyone* who needs >> > help should be given it; likewise, from the Prodigal Son, that mistakes >> > should be forgiven -- though Paul Chandler's contra-example from here >> > in >> > Melbourne may give us pause; exceptio probat regulum). >> > >> > Historiographically speaking, I seem to find myself among the >> > revisionists: forget the "story" that's been told, where's the >> > evidence? >> > How does it run? I suspect the answer is various. So the next >> > questions >> > have to be: time? place? orders (since we mentioned mendicants)? >> > persons? >> > For half the "medieval" period, mendicant orders didn't exist. Did >> > they >> > make a difference? >> > >> > As for the "city gates" aspect, my general idea of medieval towns is >> > that >> > there was a market square, or the like, from which at times beggars may >> > have been hunted out pretty smartly; but the city jurisdiction ended at >> > the gates. Therefore, outside the gates was a safer place for beggars; >> > besides, by definition, gates were points where traffic of people >> > coming >> > into and going out from the town was concentrated. >> > >> > Hal Cain >> > Joint Theological Library >> > Parkville, Victoria, Australia >> > [log in to unmask] >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this outgoing message. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.6/257 - Release Date: >> > 10/02/2006 >> > >> > ********************************************************************** >> > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> > to: [log in to unmask] >> > To send a message to the list, address it to: >> > [log in to unmask] >> > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >> > to: [log in to unmask] >> > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> > [log in to unmask] >> > For further information, visit our web site: >> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >> > >> >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] >> To send a message to the list, address it to: >> [log in to unmask] >> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >> to: [log in to unmask] >> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] >> For further information, visit our web site: >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >> > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html