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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture John's right - please accept my apologies. I have conflated the minor door into the tower with the c13 porch adjacent to it, which is what I thought I was talking about. It doesn't help that I've used 'NW'/'SW' throughout as shorthand for the main way into the nave on each side, rather than any tower entrance (I've specified where a 'NW' door goes into a tower) - or that said porch was made far less visible within decades of its construction, by the addition of those (very French) outer aisles. So I am indeed talking about the main N door, just to the E of the tower. And I had completely forgotten how far E the 'bishops/senior clerics' nave S door is, and thus the cloister W range. Funny how the brain 'regularizes' the reality. John, would I be right in saying though that you are accepting/agreeing with most of my suggestions for use at Chichester, tentative as they are - even if memory and simple writing-too-fast has unfortunately blurred the precise location of doors? Do you think 'lay access' remains a reasonable ascription for that north porch? ..I now wonder if any other of my suggested large porches or grand W fronts which have a reasonable case for being the main 'lay' point of access were into naves that held parochial altars. That would be true for Hereford and Lincoln, for example: in the case of Lincoln, a previous church on the same site was demolished to make way for the cathedral, and the parish altar moved into the new building ... but I think there was no parish altar at Worcester and Durham, both also here suggested as having 'grand' lay entrances, perhaps focused on Bishops, with lay access as a by-the-by ... though here I am really clutching at memory-straws... I fear my list may contain further such errors. I'm particularly aware how much archaeological work is being done on the precise configuration of cathedral closes in medieval times: it could yet transform our picture of what (and who) went where. In this regard, David Stocker on Vicar's Closes and Roberta Gilchrist's recent book on monastic cemeteries offer much important material - I looked at neither when writing 'Jim's list'. I do hope said doesn't prove to have been a foolhardy attempt at the encylopaedic - and I welcome further clarifications/corrections/suggestions. Apologies again in the meantime. Jon Cannon -----Original Message----- From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Briggs Sent: 27 February 2006 17:02 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [M-R] door symbolism - 'Jim's list' medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Jon Cannon wrote: > > Chichester: > Western entrance: ceremonial/VIP. Single door sheltered by large porch > with possible platform above. Tomb recesses in walls. C13. > NW door: lay. into NW tower from N side, facing former gate to town. > Smallest entrance at we end. C13. That's a touch garbled: there is indeed a door in the N face of the NW tower, but there is no reason to believe that it was used by anybody. The main N door (and its C13 porch, engulfed by slightly later outer N aisle) is immediately E of the tower, and leads into the nave N aisle. The situation at Chichester is complicated by the former parochial (or subdeanery) altar of St Peter having been in the nave, before it move to the N transept, probably in the C15. The was a (lost) vestry contructed W of the N transept in the C15. > SW door: bishop - and clerics? Very grand trumeau'd door with image of > St Richard de Wych, bishop saint. Nearest door to canon's houses and > bishop's palace. The 'SW' door (and its C13 porch, also engulfed in an outer aisle) isn't particularly SW - it is towards the E end of the nave. It looks as if it has a ceremonial (ie processional) function - see below. > SE door: vicars - and clerics? into south choir aisle. Vicars' college > at this end of complex from c15. Cloister also very late, date of door > not clear to me. The door may only be of the same date as the 'cloister' ie, C15. It leads into the S aisle of the retrochoir of c.1200, at a position which isn't particularly convenient for anything, except St Richard's shrine and the Lady Chapel. So the exact positioning may be for a procession from or to the shrine to or from the nave, although it would probably be the normal clergy entrance (certainly for the vicars and the Lady Chapel choir). > The three westernmost doors at Chichester are a 'textbook' > arrangement - liturgy/bishop/lay, each smaller than the last and > facing the appropriate way. Maybe - but it could be argued that with the cloister in place, the bishop could use the SE entrance as an everyday entrance, or the bishop and canons might prefer the 'SW' entrance, despite it leading into the nave, because of the proximity of the sacristy. John Briggs ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html