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I could be completely off-base in this request, but my fuzzy memory of what's on-topic for this list does not include debates among practitioners about whether or not their magic(k) works. I think it can be an interesting discussion, and I've had them off-list before and will probably do so again, but I'd rather not see it take up bandwidth in this forum. It's one of the things that spoiled the former incarnation of this list, and I'm concerned about it coming back around. Caelum Rainieri ----------------------- occultimatum.blogspot.com www.squidoo.com/oam www.nahualli.com --------------------------------- What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos