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Talking about assessment practice, on spin off from using Turnitin along is that bad assessment practices are quickly and openly picked up. Turnitin use has resulted in improved assessment practice so that assessments are more individually based. Last word from me. S Suzanne Ryan Teaching, Learning and Quality Coordinator Newcastle Graduate School of Business University of Newcastle Callaghan NSW 2308 Australia Phone +61 2 49 216015 Fax +61 2 49 217398 www.gsb.newcastle.edu.au >>> Paul Cecil <[log in to unmask]> 27/09/06 8:18 AM >>> Diane, Well said. The plagiarism debate needs to be much broader than 'detection'. Sensible assessment strategies will eliminate much of the kind of thing that Turnitin can find. Better referencing certainly helps; and although detection software may have a role, it is a small and secondary one. What concerns me about some of the discussion here is the willingness of the academic community so willingly to cut across fundamental issues of intellectual property and data protection for what is seen as an immediate gain. The internet is real and we need to understand how it works, and how to live with it; and more particularly what it means for the use, extension and distribution and *nature* of knowledge. Plagiarism isn't a sin per se (there are art movements built upon it and I doubt there's a university administration that hasn't plagiarized some of its regulations - it's called sharing knowledge). So the context is important, and the purpose of education more so. If students believe education is all about their marks then some will cheat in order to improve their chances. If they understand that education is about their development, they may actually want to learn (I believe most already do). We need to address that, both in our institutions and in the wider arena. I'm not suggesting that stealing work wholesale off the net should be tolerated, but we are moving into a time when copyright may well evaporate, intellectual property will be distributed free to the end-user, and notions of ownership will be severely tested generally. Alongside this, there are issues of personal data gathering. Data protection and attitudes towards it vary across national borders. These are real issues which shouldn't be too readily brushed aside in the interests of catching a dodgy essay (especially since a decent essay title and rubric will remove much of the risk of blatant plagiarism). So I'm cautious about the sector sliding into a relatively untested means of addressing a 'problem' without thinking through the implications of what the obligatory electronic 'tagging' of all student work says about ourselves as educators. No doubt we can get students at registration to sign away rights that they barely understand so that we can use Turnitin and similar services. It may catch a few cheats we would otherwise miss. But I really do believe that there are better ways of dealing with cheating than (in effect) endorsing the tyranny of technology by buying a bigger computer than the student has, and one with a better search engine in it. Paul Cecil Head of Academic Office University of Sussex 01273 877755 [log in to unmask] --On 26 September 2006 22:42 +0100 "Schmitt, Diane" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Sorry ignore the first posting I hit something on the laptop and it sent > the message before I finished. Completed message below. > Diane > > ________________________________ > > From: Plagiarism on behalf of Schmitt, Diane > Sent: Tue 26/09/2006 22:35 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Making money off students - Tail wagging the dog > > > > My good for them is based on the uneasy feeling many people share and I > feel quite strongly about is that forcing students to submit papers > through Turnitin or other software is a breach of trust. All students > are being tarred with the "you might be a potential cheater brush". The > article states that another high school that uses the service - Broad > Run, found only 3 cases of cheating in the first year of use and has > found only another 3 cases since 2002. You could infer that Turnitin is > working and cheaters have been deterred or you could infer that not that > many kids at Broad Run high school cheat anyway and that the school is > spending a whole lot of money for nothing. The longitudinal data shown > in Don McCabe's plenary talk at the Plagiarism Conference in June showed > that contrary to public opinion, instances of plagiarism have not jumped > dramatically as a result of the web and the world is not going to hell in > a bucket. There are kids out there who are honest and care about > learning. > > The media and academics are often far too quick to haul students in front > of disciplinary boards for cheating when in fact they have simply > referenced poorly. I teach students about referencing and it is very > rare that students get it right the first or even second time around. > The students at Maclean high school are standing up and asking to be > taught and they are making clear that expensive, fancy software is not > required to teach what they need to learn. So again I say good for them! > > Diane > > Diane Schmitt > Senior Lecturer of EFL/TESOL > Nottingham Language Centre > Nottingham Trent University > Burton Street > Nottingham NG1 4BU > Tel 0115 848 6156 > Fax 0115 848 6513 > [log in to unmask] > > ________________________________ > > From: Plagiarism on behalf of Mike Reddy > Sent: Tue 26/09/2006 22:12 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Making money off students - Tail wagging the dog > > > > Diane's "Good for them!" is what got me mad. The phrase "making money off > students" put the cherry on the cake. I'm no defender of TurnitinUK - > detection software does not solve the problem of copying, just the > detection (mostly) - but from my understanding of the technical aspects > of the way the database works, the 'use' of students' work is limited to > the thumbprint that is stored. This would not allow Barrie or any other > iParadigms employee to read and, therefore, use an essay; the only way > that an author's IP could be abused. You might just as well say that all > the words I have just used to type this email are the property of someone > else. Of the electrons flowing through the computer that made up the > email. The thumbnails produced by analysing the essays are rather like > the results of me counting how many of each letter were used. Would the > fact that ?? letter Ts were used be an infringement of my IP if you took > the trouble to count it for yourself? > > Whether or not IP belongs to the students or the universities - many of > which have clauses defining ownership in the 'contract' signed on > registration, but fewer have the procedures to regain that after > coursework submission and marking - is another matter. Maybe, Diane could > explain her remarks and suggest alternatives to using plagiarism > detection software? > > P.S. There really were 124 Ts used. 124 is therefore, my intellectual > property. > > ************************************************************************* > You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, > change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html > ************************************************************************* > > > > > This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private > and confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, > please take no action based on it nor show a copy to anyone. In this > case, please reply to this email to highlight the error. Opinions and > information in this email that do not relate to the official business of > Nottingham Trent University shall be understood as neither given nor > endorsed by the University. Nottingham Trent University has taken steps > to ensure that this email and any attachments are virus-free, but we do > advise that the recipient should check that the email and its attachments > are actually virus free. This is in keeping with good computing practice. > > > > ************************************************************************* > You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, > change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html > ************************************************************************* > > > > > This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private > and confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, > please take no action based on it nor show a copy to anyone. In this > case, please reply to this email to highlight the error. Opinions and > information in this email that do not relate to the official business of > Nottingham Trent University shall be understood as neither given nor > endorsed by the University. Nottingham Trent University has taken steps > to ensure that this email and any attachments are virus-free, but we do > advise that the recipient should check that the email and its attachments > are actually virus free. 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