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But surely that's what the master's degree programme does - builds on the knowledge that someone has gained via their first degree, but with a focus on the professional issues and skills needed ? Which is why I think we should still ask that a professional position requires a professional qualification. Those that are willing and able to do librarianship as a first degree can still choose to do that, and those that can't, can do a master's course, maybe part-time. As a fairly newly qualified librarian, I would be very upset to think that giving up a full-time position (and the three years' salary involved) to study for a degree, incurring £11,000 of debt, was unnecessary, as I could have done something similar to a chartership report (which, hey! I'm being encouraged to do anyway) and got a very similar job. "Williams, Rebecca" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: list for CILIP members working towards MCLIP status <[log in to unmask]> 12/06/2006 14:09 Please respond to "Williams, Rebecca" <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject Re: calling all ACLIPs: what ACLIP entitles you to in your librar y. Exactly my point below: If it's just to prove a certain level of academic ability then why not have a route into the profession which could include any degree backed up by a short professional training - similar to a PGCE? Rebecca Williams Principal Librarian Children's, Youth and Development Swansea Libraries '01792 637132 www.swansea.gov.uk/libraries -----Original Message----- From: list for CILIP members working towards MCLIP status [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Zoe Harland Sent: 12 June 2006 12:45 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: calling all ACLIPs: what ACLIP entitles you to in your librar y. Isn that not the same with a lot of degrees though - it's about the analytical and transferable skills learned as well as the direct knowledge isn't it? I can't say I directly use my classics undergrad degree but it helped to shape the way I analyse and deal with data on a daily basis. Just my humble opinion. Zoe Harland Assistant Librarian: Reader Services Royal Society of Medicine From: list for CILIP members working towards MCLIP status [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Williams, Rebecca Sent: 12 June 2006 12:39 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: calling all ACLIPs: what ACLIP entitles you to in your librar y. Hmmm, different debate - what is a professional librarian? How many of us use the things we learned on our degree courses in our daily work? More so if you're in a "traditional" librarian's role perhaps, but I certainly don't. Rebecca Williams Principal Librarian Children's, Youth and Development Swansea Libraries '01792 637132 www.swansea.gov.uk/libraries -----Original Message----- From: list for CILIP members working towards MCLIP status [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: 12 June 2006 12:31 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: calling all ACLIPs: what ACLIP entitles you to in your librar y. Does this mean that one no longer needs to go to university to become a professional librarian? On 12/06/06, Williams, Rebecca < [log in to unmask]> wrote: Presumably because they have not had the opportunity in their careers or lives to attend university and/or cannot commit to or afford distance learning. Rebecca Williams Principal Librarian Children's, Youth and Development Swansea Libraries '01792 637132 www.swansea.gov.uk/libraries -----Original Message----- From: list for CILIP members working towards MCLIP status [mailto: [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ann-Emily Brew Sent: 12 June 2006 12:08 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: calling all ACLIPs: what ACLIP entitles you to in your library. Hello, Can I ask why an exceptional candidate would not have had the opportunity to gain a librarianship degree ? If they were that good, why would a university or college have not accepted them onto a degree course ? Amanda Poulton <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: list for CILIP members working towards MCLIP status < [log in to unmask]> 12/06/2006 11:38 Please respond to Amanda Poulton <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject Re: calling all ACLIPs: what ACLIP entitles you to in your library. We decided at Northamptonshire that it was an appropriate equivalent provided that candidates can meet the required criteria for the post and of course they will have to compete with those who apply with a librarian qualification. Given the experience and professionalism that some of our library assistants and supervisors have to offer we felt that some, after having pursued the ACLIP route, would be able to perform as a librarian without devaluing the profession or undermining the librarianship qualification. I wouldn't necessarily say that it was an alternative route more that it gives exceptional candidates who have not had the opportunity to gain a librarianship degree the opportunity to pursue their career at a professional level if they can prove both through ACLIP and their experience that they have the necessary skills to do the job. Certainly CILIP encourages employers to "Consider offering financial incentives and career progression and development opportunities to successful individuals to improve retention of proven quality employees" and having investing the time in supporting ACLIP candidates to raise the level of their prefessionalism we would rather not lose them to another employer but offer them a career progression opportunity. Amanda Amanda Poulton Principal Librarian - Northampton Area Northamptonshire County Council Weston Favell Library Weston Favell Centre Northampton NN3 8JZ Email: [log in to unmask] Tel: (01604) 773901 >>> Steve <[log in to unmask]> 12/06/2006 10:46:36 >>> Could someone clarify the purpose ACLIP and the certification scheme. I understood it was to provide a framework for and recognition of training and development for library assistants. Is it an alternative route to becoming a professional librarian/info professional? A second question - is there anyone in the Yorkshire and Humberside region who works as a solo professional or in a "special" library who is working towards chartership and wants to exchange ideas? Steve On 12/06/06, Amanda Poulton <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Joanne, > > At Northamptonshire we have agreed that there will be no remuneration for > staff holding an ACLIP. However, they will be considered a "qualified > librarian" in terms of applying for professional jobs such as a team > librarian. > > Amanda > > >>> Joanne Payne <[log in to unmask]> 09/06/2006 07:13:30 >>> > THis is to everyone working towards chartership who have achieved ACLIP > status. > I am a library assistant and the only ACLIP in my authority and there is > some confusion among management about what this qualification entitles me > to in my workplace. For example: > > Am I entitled to a new pay scale? > > Do other authorities employ ACLIPs in a more senior post, eg below > librarians but above senior library assistants? > > Is it an acceptable qualification to apply for librarian/management > positions? > > Any advice from other ACLIPs about their experiences since certification, > or information from managers of other authorities would be very much > appreciated. > > Joanne Payne ACLIP. > > Amanda Poulton > Principal Librarian - Northampton Area > Northamptonshire County Council > Weston Favell Library > Weston Favell Centre > Northampton > NN3 8JZ > > Email: [log in to unmask] > Tel: (01604) 773901 > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the > use of the individual or organisation to whom they are addressed. If you > have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender either by > return of e-mail or by ringing the County Council's main switchboard on +44 > (0) 1604 236236. > The information contained in this e-mail and in your reply may be subject > to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation > and its confidentiality cannot be guaranteed. > This e-mail has been checked for the presence of computer viruses. > Northamptonshire County Council. http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk > -------------------------------------------------- > -- Steve Burgess [log in to unmask] ------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or organisation to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender either by return of e-mail or by ringing the County Council's main switchboard on +44 (0) 1604 236236. The information contained in this e-mail and in your reply may be subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and its confidentiality cannot be guaranteed. This e-mail has been checked for the presence of computer viruses. Northamptonshire County Council. http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk -------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager mailto:[log in to unmask] http://www.bma.org.uk ______________________________________________________________________ ****************************************************************** This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the administrator on the following address: [log in to unmask] Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac at ddefnydd yr unigolyn neu'r corff y cyfeiriwyd hwy atynt yn unig. Os ydych wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn drwy gamgymeriad, dylech hysbysu'r gweinyddydd yn y cyfeiriad canlynol: [log in to unmask] ******************************************************************* -- Steve Burgess [log in to unmask] ****************************************************************** This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the administrator on the following address: [log in to unmask] Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac at ddefnydd yr unigolyn neu'r corff y cyfeiriwyd hwy atynt yn unig. 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