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An innocent writes...(at least a virgin on the group). You have already heard from my colleague Chris Pinder of the practice here in Hull. It's the same hotch-potch as most institutions, I guess. But I'd argue that each subject area has its own conventions, in referencing as in so many other ways, and that the function of those of us who seek to promote and support learners is to bear this cross and deliver the system that the department wants the client to use. A cautionary tale: here at Hull, the University's Teaching and Learning Committee was asked by a colleague to look at referencing. Apparently there was no trouble with the first question: all agreed unanimously that the University should standardise on one system. The second question produced one answer, alas with many meanings. "Which should we use?" "Our department's." Nothing further was done. I don't think anything further could have been done. As someone said, the whole business of referencing in academia is good training for life: in academic life for those who want to go on to post-grad work (not to forget those who simply want to avoid allegations of plagiarism), and in non-academic working life because our graduates must be able to cope with disciplines and systems of greater or lesser rigour. So if a 'client' comes to me seeking aid with referencing, the first thing I need to determine is the student's home department. Then I must seek to explain that with clarity, and the thinking behind it, and try to develop and or or reinforce the client's practised/skilful/whatever use of it. (I teach that there are 4 principles that matter: 1. Be honest [+ the meaning of that in academic terms]; 2. Make it possible for your reader to find and check the facts/quotatiions that you use [+ a concept of judgement in knowing what should be, and what need not be, referenced to a source]; 3. Use whatever system your Department wants [+ at times mild cynicism]; 4. Be consistent. I think there is something to be said for the view that if you do all these 4, you cannot be guilty of plagiarism; and you are at least approaching academic propriety.) Another oddity that sometimes annoys me, more often amuses - and on which members of the LDHEN list may be able to enlighten me: I met a Head of Derpartment ['Chair'] from Harvard University who had never heard of "the Harvard system". When I had finished describing it to him, he said "That sounds like what we call 'the Social Sciences system'." His own department uses footnotes. (A quick search of OED and the on-line Oxford reference collection casts no light on the origin of the name 'Harvard system'.) As has frequently been said, "this one will run and run. Peter Wilson