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No, there is no such thing as true knowledge of the mental state of another person (we can debate whether you can know your own state truly or not another time).  You can only know what people report and what you can observe. Anthropology 101.

 Al
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Patric Gavin 
  To: [log in to unmask] 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:07 PM
  Subject: Re: Golden Dawn Questions


  On 12/14/05, Al Billings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    You can't measure the effects of ritual on people. You can only record their verbal reports of effects. I'm sure all of us who are practitioners have met people that claim all sorts of things.

   I'm sorry, but this sounds like a statement that borders on assuming that there is no such thing as psychology.