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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture From: Dr Rosemary Hayes <[log in to unmask]> > in England by the thirteenth century a bishop could request the royal chancery to issue a writ ordering the local sheriff to capture and detain persons who had remained obdurately excommunicate for more than 40 days. sounds like the English king was acting in his own best interest, as opposed to the French, who was acting like some sort of Saint or something. "capture and detain" wasn't the Operative factor here, but rather, as Joinville says, "to compel them, ***by seizure of their possessions***" typically, the English guy Siezes the Moment to smash & grab stuff which wasn't nailed down --with the Blessing of Holy Mother Church, no less-- while Louis' passing up this opportunity appears to me to be either a Saintly act or, perhaps, one driven by other motives. i wonder what the specific circumstances were which precipitated the bishops' initial request. a bit late for the Cathars in the South --or was it? perhaps there was some specific vassal (or faction of vassals) who was the target of the Bishops' (or faction of Bishops) action? though by Louis9's time the Capetian was in a much stronger position viz-a-viz his vassals than he was in the time of Louis7, it was in the nature of middlevil Kingship that he was constantly playing factions among his major subjects against one another, i should think. c "Lots of useless other data points just enlarge the consciousness of the agrieved showing how particular the pain is." --Burma Shave ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html