Until relatively recently I too had a low
threshold for formally draining all traumatic pneumothoraces.
There is little debate about the need for
a formal drainage in patients who require ventilation, transfer to theatre or to
another hospital, or who have tensioned at any time, or those with underlying
lung disease.
The majority of patients we see in the ED,
however, have small pneumothoraces with normal physiology, usually causing
minimal (if any) symptoms in fit and healthy individuals. Many
present 24 hours or more after injury.
I am now increasingly conservative with this
latter groups of patients, and will aspirate these first line (if > 30 -50% and
causing symptoms), and will consider over night admission to the CDU. Many of
these patients can be successfully discharged home after a short period of
observation, with
a repeat check CXR prior to discharge and 2 weeks later.
The breach in the pulmonary visceral
pleura usually seals rapidly which is why even simple aspiration will often be
successful, especially if complete re-expansion can be achieved at the time of
aspiration.
I have never been enthusiastic about an anterior
approach for thoracocentesis (or formal drainage) because of the potential for
disaster with close proximity of vital anatomical structures, even in the mid-clavicular
line. I have always used a lateral approach (5th intercostal space
or above), and I do not rely on a catheter-over needle (14G venflon) to achieve
adequate emergency pleural decompression in suspected tension pneumothorax.
Best wishes,
John Black
-----Original
Message-----
From: Accident and Emergency
Academic List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adrian Fogarty
Sent: 30 March 2005 20:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: chest drains
That's certainly the way
we used to do them 20-odd years ago! I think it went out of fashion as, let's
face it, you're more likely to "prang" something in the mediastinum
if you start putting big drains into the MCL. Conversely, I don't see anything
wrong with doing needle thoracentesis in the axillary area! Cardiac surgeons
place axillary drains postoperatively - in cases where they let the lungs
down or where they approach endoscopically - and their mediastinal drains
emanate from the sub-xiphisternal area. (I use the word "emanate" as
they're inserted from inside out!)
With respect to
aspiration, the BTS guidelines do strike me as odd. I've always thought
that large pneumos, i.e. 50-90%, are highly unlikely to expand with
aspiration simply because, by definition, the pulmonary leak must be quite
large to allow such a big collapse, and is likely to be larger still as the
lung expands and the parenchyma stretches particularly where the pneumo is
recent (and where the leak will not have sealed). I always go straight for a
drain - admittedly a slim Seldinger model these days - when faced with a large
pneumothorax.
Regards
Adrian Fogarty
sri srinivas
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
recently i came across someone who had inserted a
chest drain size 28 in the ant mid clavicular line and
used suction for draining a spontaneous pnuemothorax
after aspirationx2 was unsucessful and still large.
is anterior chest midclavicular line a suitable
option rather than the traditional axillary approach.
do cardiothoracics use this approach?
would like some info before i approach concerned
person.
sri