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Ah, well, I do disagree. I had read the Economu version first and liked it and only today read the Haviaras translation and from the beginning, it struck me as more fluid of voice. That "old book" rather than "antique" book also seems more culturally on, but, aside from that, since 'antique' in English has a particular time definition, it would be redundant to go on and add the 'hundred years' and in the poem Cavafy in describing the watercolor uses not only the adjective, but then goes on to add, a hundred years or so old. "Representation of Eros" seems also to me to work better in English than "Presentation of Love" which sounds somewhat 'pseudo-title' for a painting. And in first reading the Economu version, I found the line "The utmost sensualists' love" would have been more apt. abstract and awkward, whereas Haviaras' "Of Eros in Extremis" would have been more to the point has that catch of a living voice. I don't know as 'sculptural quality' is a quality in Cavafy's work; in that I'll have to defer to my friend who is a native Greek speaker and a poet and translator from Greek who finds that the Haviaras translations are closer to the cadence and voice of Cavafy. Also culturally, I think "everyday morality" and "unseemly" are closer to Greek Alexandrine views of this, rather than "current morality" and "shameless" which may seem stronger in Anglo/English views and language but perhaps not what Cavafy meant. Well, I am sort of stuck here between conversations in reality, unquotable, and conversations in virtual reality, so I'm just going to go off and learn more, but I thought I should chime in and draw attention to some of the merits of the Haviaras (whom I don't know) translation before there's some kind of poetic electoral landslide that obliterates a worthwhile work from view. Best, Rebecca ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:44:34 -0800 >From: Jon Corelis <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: Mark, two translations/same Cavafy poem >To: [log in to unmask] > >> Jon, what is your opinion? > >I should say at this point that I'm not a native Greek speaker, so no doubt >both of the translators are more sensitive to the original than I could be. >But I also like the Economou version better. It seems to recreate better the >technique of presenting a poignant subject in fairly plain language. > >I think one of the miraculous things about this poem is that by the end you've >forgotten that you're supposed to be looking at an old picture instead of a >living person. I also have a feeling, which I can't at all support by >pointing to anything specific in the text, that the young man becomes >collapsed, as it were, with Cavafy's own remembered youthful self. > > >===================================== >Jon Corelis [log in to unmask] > > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >===================================== > > >____________________________________________________________________ >