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I don't disagree with Mike. It is a grey area, with only a few instances of nearly pure black, and the actions of both staff and students need to be taken into account. I wrote rather forcefully in my article, because it was directed against a small minority of academics who deny the very concept of plagiarism. In my view, this undermines the HE project of getting students to think independently. I have come increasingly to believe that students are encouraged in bad academic practice at school, and that the key to addressing the problem lies in inducting students into good academic practice from the moment they enter university, and in ensuring that all teaching and assessment fosters good practice. This requires much more radical change than adding bolt-on skills modules, or issuing students with handbooks. As Mike says, the resolution will not be as soon as we like. George. -----Original Message----- From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Reddy Sent: 19 April 2005 09:20 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: How low can it go? Oh, much much lower! Post-Modernism is often represented as "there is no such thing as ownership", as George is well known for attempting to refute. However, this is not a black and white world. We can choose to avoid the extremes of "property is theft" OR to require that "everything is owned" - including my DNA, which in America at least can be patented by any doctor who took a sample and did a bit of lab work! Both positions are valid at the same time. Neither are sufficient alone. Essays on plagiarism are a reflection of the fact that the academic community are discussing the issue (finally). However, I believe it's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better: 1) Denial - about 6 years ago 2) Panic - about 4 years ago 3) Attempted Quick Fix - 2 years ago until the present day 4) Panic - The next two years? 5) Resolution - Not as soon as we would like 6) And on to the next crisis in HE... Stage 2 was all about the students. Stage 4 will be about the lecturers, and may require a good deal of soul searching. However, I don't agree that we should point the finger exclusively at lecturers - although I have regularly gone on the record saying we should look at learning practice and assessment strategies - or the students either - Is it just me that gets sick of seeing 'cheat' and other emotive words being used as if the student body are some sort of low life scum? The world is not black and white. No matter how comfortable it is to totally blame others, or ourselves. Hair shirts solve nothing. Mike ************************************************************************ * You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************ * ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html *************************************************************************