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I think it would okay for the university medical centre to be involved. I worked with a student who was eventually 'pronounced' as unfit to attend by a university doctor. It wasn't pleasant, but the condition of her return was that she would have to be cleared by a university doctor, and might be referred back to that doctor for a further assessment if there were problems in the future. At least that meant there were agreed conditions and involving the university doctor was very useful as she could liaise with the student's own doctor (with her permission of course). Bryan Brunel Uni, West London -----Original Message----- From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of fiona mcgrother Sent: 20 July 2005 09:35 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Any advice? I hear what you are saying, and I know that many alternative interventions have been proved more effective than medication, however, in this case, I'm not sure assumptions have been made. Paddy made reference to a specific case where medication was the treatment in question. We certainly don't have the right to insist on treatment, however, as educational institutions, we have so many responsibilities that we are in a position where if someones behaviour is consistently disrupting the experience of others trying to succeed, we can make decisions about whether it is appropriate to re-admit someone to the university. Vital in all of this, is that the student is given access to all of the support that is available, be it mental health co-ordinator, counselling or disability support. Monitoring someones progress as I see it is not about 'making sure they are complying with treatment' more that we talk about all of the issues, how they are feeling and what is important to them at that time. hope this makes sense Fiona >From: Anne Berquier <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: "Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff." > <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Any advice? >Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:24:21 +1000 > >Hi, > >I am a bit concerned about some of the assumptions here. Firstly, I don't >think we have the right to insist that someone receive treatment for a >condition, particularly when the treatment has such serious and often >life-threatening side-effects. Secondly, it is assumed that people with >mental illness will be well if they take their medication. This is patently >inaccurate. I have worked in a mental institution for people with chronic >mental illnesses where not taking medication was not an option and those >people remained extremely unwell and very psychotic at times. In fact, we >would not really need mental hospitals at all if the medication worked for >everyone at all times. > >I understand the concern for other people in this situation and of course >all efforts should be made to keep other people safe. However, I would be >very concerned if we included monitoring compliance with treatment in our >role. Most of the literature on violence and mental illness states that, >statistically, we are as much at risk of assault from people of both sexes >between the ages of 15 and 25 as we are from people with a mental illness. >Alcohol certainly increases that risk in everyone and it may be possible to >focus on drunken behaviour on campus rather than the presence or otherwise >of a mental illness. > >I also have many students who refuse conventional western treatment for >other conditions e.g. adrenal gland tumour, diabetes, etc. As this may be >associated with a medical emergency, do we then extend the treatment >condition for enrolment to these people? > >What do other people think about this? I realise that the mental health >legislation may also differ between countries and this may also affect what >we can and cannot do. >Regards, >Anne > >Anne Berquier >Disability Adviser >Student Support Services >The University of Queensland > >Telephone: (07) 3365 1757 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of fiona mcgrother >Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 2:28 AM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Any advice? > >Hi there, >it would be interesting to know if there were certain conditions were >placed on the student prior to their expulsion. I.e. did someone say to >them >that they may be allowed to return if they had medical evidence to support >that? > >The most helpful condition, I feel is to ask the student to have very >regular contact with a member of staff. I have been a point of contact in >this context previously (in my former role as mental health co-ordinator). >This has been very helpful in terms of assessing how things are going and >whether or not someone is taking their treatment seriously. I have >occasionally got the students permission to liaise with the teaching staff. > >This helps to clarify any issues there may be on all sides. > >I would always say, however, that if a student is not taking their >treatment >seriously and is not taking the appropriate support that is made available >and accessible to them, then the instituion has a duty to all its other >students as well and it is perfectly reasonable in some circumstances to >look at the options, one of which may be a disciplinary one. > >Fiona > > >From: "Turner, Paddy" <[log in to unmask]> > >Reply-To: "Discussion list for disabled students and their support >staff." > > > <[log in to unmask]> > >To: [log in to unmask] > >Subject: Any advice? > >Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:06:04 +0100 > > > >Hello all, > >The situation is this: > >A student with a mental health difficulty, taking medication, was asked > >to leave the course as a result of violent and aggressive episodes > >brought on by alcohol abuse and failing to take the medication. > >No-one was physically hurt although many students were shaken up by the > >episodes, one student left the course through fear as a result of these > >behaviours and property was damaged. > > > >The student has now requested to return to the course and has medical > >evidence stating that s/he is fit to return, that s/he now understands > >the consequences of failing to take the medication and of drinking to > >excess. > > > >The tutor responsible for re-admitting is, however, convinced that s/he > >will be unable to refrain from further outbursts under the pressure of > >the course and is extremely anxious for himself and for the other > >students. In addition the course is studio-based meaning that students > >are left unsupervised sometimes quite late into the evening. > > > >Clearly, in theory this student should be given another chance, but > >there are quite genuine concerns for the safety of others. My questions > >are: > >Has anyone had a similar experience with an outcome that worked or > >didn't work, and why? > >Can anyone suggest any support or fall-backs to ensure the safety of > >the other students? Could the H&S Act be invoked to prevent > >re-admission, do you think? Could conditions be placed on his return, > >either limiting access or perhaps a suspended sentence as it were, with > >regard to exclusion? > > > >Any advice gratefully received on or off-list > > > >Paddy