I would have thought that, for insurance purposes if nothing else, there would have to be some place where a record is kept about a student examining a patient.
However, what is the managers' problem? Surely it is good practice (and went on well before DPA)to find out whether the patient agrees. I can't see many patients objecting.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Ticher [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 17 June 2005 12:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Consent for medical students to examine patients for
teaching
Firstly, are the students recording personal data? If they are creating
dummy records which will either be deleted or kept on paper as part of the
students' portfolio it might not meet the 'Durant' tests (though I see that
is now being appealed).
If they are obtaining personal data, then some of it will be sensitive, and
consent is almost bound to be required. (The eighth Schedule 3 condition
would be at best borderline, as medical training is not included in the
definition of medical care.)
Your question then is whether verbal consent, based on a skim through some
literature while waiting, is sufficient, or whether you need written
consent. You could probably make an argument either way. Written consent
provides you with evidence that consent was genuinely given, as well as an
opportunity to spell out precisely what people are consenting to. Are they
consenting just to the information being obtained, or are they also
consenting to physical actions by the students which might otherwise be
assault?
On the other hand, if the information being collected is not going to be
retained on the patient's medical record, and is not going to affect their
treatment, you could argue that the risk is so low that verbal consent would
suffice.
If you do go for written consent it should surely be kept with the patient's
records, so that it can be located easily in response to a subject access
request, etc.
Paul Ticher
0116 273 8191
22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB
I hereby require any recipient of this message not to use my personal data
for direct marketing purposes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Gadsden" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:08 PM
Subject: Consent for medical students to examine patients for teaching
> Can anyone give me a bit of guidance on this? As part of their
> training, there are special sessions set up for student doctors in the
> education department, where they can examine real people (patients and
> ex-patients) and get hand-on experience and training in a less frenetic
> environment than the wards. The education department themselves have
> produced a consent form (DA) for the patients to sign before they come,
> and an information leaflet explaining everything about the day itself,
> and how the information will be used. All well and good, but now
> managers are asking whether these consent forms are necessary (is a
> general leaflet outline the various uses of information in the Trust
> enough?), and if they are necessary, should they be kept in the health
> record?
>
> Anyone with a particular view on this one?
>
> Thanks (must be Friday afternoon!!)
>
> Anne
>
> Anne Gadsden AHRIM
> Information Governance Officer
> Information Services Department
> North Cumbria Acute Hospitals NHS Trust
> Cumberland Infirmary
> Carlisle CA2 7HY
> 01228 814074 (direct line)
>
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
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