Tim Trent on Monday, January 24, 2005 at 11:56 AM said:-
> I don't disagree that the employer needs to ensure that the
> employee can do the job properly and without danger to self
> or others! Now where is my blood pressure monitor;)
I would. The employer only needs to ensure that the employee can do the job
properly given any safety 'and' anti discriminatory responsibility the
employer themselves may have. So some questions may well be a method of
avoiding having to meet some of those responsibilities.
> Oddly colour blindness means that you have a mono genetic
> disorder and may receive viagra on the NHS, instead of having
> to pay for it :)
So that sensitive personal data may be held without open acknowledgement or
realisation, unless different levels of understanding are applied. A good
job the Directive and DPA 1998 are worded widely enough to enable a data
subject to progress any discrimination arising from the collection and use
of personal data even in circumstances just like that.
Carter, Antoinette (CCM) on Monday, January 24, 2005 at 11:49 AM said:-
> I think all the comments made so far
> about the Medical Form are slightly missing the point. The
> employer needs to establish that a prospective employee is
> fit to carry out the work he might be employed to do. The
> only way to do that is to complete a medical questionnaire
> which gives a full picture of the individual.
see my first response above.
> A medical questionnaire needs to review all the information.
Medical practitioners do yes, and processed under DPA health terms of
confidentiality, so that only the pertinent responses, relating to the
employment role a person is hired for is utilised by the employing
organisation.
Where an organisation does not utilise medical practitioners, much of the
information used by those more informed and expert medical people would seem
to become totally excessive because of an inability to effectively utilise
it. The level, and abilities of any medical practitioner used would also be
a pertinent factor determining what information they would ask for or need.
At the DP level it is frequently necessary to raise the questions in an area
and then utilise the advice subsequently provided from the various sources,
together with information from the DPA 1998, other legislation and all the
relevant guidance to formulate a final view/response.
Ian W
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Trent
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:56 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Medical Records form
>
>
> I don't disagree that the employer needs to ensure that the
> employee can do the job properly and without danger to self
> or others! Now where is my blood pressure monitor;)
>
> What I disagree with is shotgun questions not rifle
> questions. And some of this is a fishing expedition, too.
>
> Oddly colour blindness means that you have a mono genetic
> disorder and may receive viagra on the NHS, instead of having
> to pay for it :)
>
> But many of these questions go beyond the boundary of what is
> relevant. That is my issue here. It is thus excessive
> collection and processing of data.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carter, Antoinette (CCM)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>
> Sent: 24 January 2005 11:49
> To: Tim Trent; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: RE: [data-protection] Medical Records form
>
> Now, now! Calm down, Tim, it's only Monday! Think of your
> blood pressure..... I think all the comments made so far
> about the Medical Form are slightly missing the point. The
> employer needs to establish that a prospective employee is
> fit to carry out the work he might be employed to do. The
> only way to do that is to complete a medical questionnaire
> which gives a full picture of the individual. It is not that
> colour-blindness is irrelevant in all but a few professions,
> it is the fact that combined with other symptoms it may be
> indicative of something more serious. Like white cats with
> blue eyes being deaf. It would not, I think, be appropriate
> for the person recruiting ie. a non-medic, to be determining
> what is or is not medically relevant to ask their applicants.
> A medical questionnaire needs to review all the information.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Trent
> Sent: 24 January 2005 11:33
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Medical Records form
>
> More than stunning! Horrifying. And commonplace. And for
> what roles
> do
> my putative prostate and continence problems have relevance?
> And do I need to declare Pierced Ears? They ARE surgery!
>
> "please list below all the fetishes you have. We have an
> active 'after work fetish sports and social club......."
> Sorry. I just see red over questionnaires like this. But I
> am one of the people who ticked OTHER and wrote ENGLISH on
> the last census form.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Welton
> Sent: 24 January 2005 11:27
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Medical Records form
>
> Jon Leonard on Monday, January 24, 2005 at 11:07 AM said:-
>
>
> > I've listed the questions and statements below.
>
> That is stunning!
>
> A possible approach to rectify may be the key words:-
>
> "Please tick boxes that apply"
>
>
> Does that mean apply to the role, or apply to the person?
>
> It could have originally been meant those that applied to the role.
>
> Ian W
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jon Leonard
> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:07 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Medical Records form
> >
> >
> > Dear all
> >
> > I've listed the questions and statements below. There's
> nothing as bad
> > as the examples you mention Tim but from the general tone
> of the form
> > I can understand the concerns.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone for the responses so far.
> >
> > LINCOLNSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL
> > Employee Occupational
> > Health Data Folder
> > *** This section to be completed by Appointing Officer ***
> Please tick
> > boxes that apply Location/Hours : Physical Demands :
> Regular UK travel
> > .. Sedentary .. Regular overseas travel .. Physically Active ..
> > Overseas based .. Moving and Handling tasks .. Flying ..
> Climbing ..
> > Regular Night Work .. Working at Heights .. Shift Work .. Display
> > Screen work .. Full Time .. Repetitive Upper Limb Movements .. Part
> > Time .. Work Environment : Exposure to : How many hours per week ?
> > Chemicals .. Occupational Driving : Dusts .. Light Vehicles ..
> > Vibration .. PCV/LGV .. Fumes .. Fork Lift Trucks .. Noise .. Other
> > (please specify) Radiation .. Confined Spaces .. Hot temperatures ..
> > Cold temperatures .. Special requirements :
> > Cytotoxics .. Excellent Hearing .. Blood, Body Fluids ..
> Food Handler
> > .. Infective Materials .. Normal Colour Vision ..
> > Animals or animal products .. Signed Print Name Position Address for
> > Email:
> > return of
> > Tel:
> > Fax:
> > fitness certificate
> > *** Candidate to complete the rest of this form*** Any medical
> > information given in this form will be held in confidence
> by Wellwork
> > Ltd If you have completed this form for the same post in the past 12
> > months and there have been NO changes to your health,
> please state the
> > month and year you completed the form and proceed to the
> back page, if
> > not please continue. General Practitioner's Name General
> > Practitioner's Address
> >
> > *** Your Medical History ***
> > Please tick all boxes. For any medical condition you have suffered
> > from, please give details later in the Questionnaire. 1.
> Heart Disease
> > of any kind Yes .. No .. 17. Hay Fever or Allergies Yes .. No .. 2.
> > High Blood Pressure Yes .. No .. 18. Concussion or Head
> Injury Yes ..
> > No .. 3. Anaemia or Blood Condition Yes .. No .. 19. Anxiety or
> > Depression Yes .. No .. 4. Phlebitis or Varicose Veins Yes ..
> > No .. 20. Other Psychological problems Yes .. No .. 5. Stroke or
> > mini-stroke Yes .. No .. 21. Stress at Home or Work Yes ..
> > No .. 6. Asthma, Bronchitis or Pneumonia Yes .. No .. 22.
> > Epilepsy Yes .. No .. 7. Tuberculosis Yes .. No .. 23.
> > Blackouts or Fits Yes .. No .. Date of BCG vaccination: 24.
> > Regular Headaches or Migraine Yes .. No .. chronic cough
> Yes .. No ..
> > 25. Any other Neurological condition Yes .. No ..
> > unexplained weight loss Yes .. No .. 26. Ear, Nose or
> Throat condition
> > Yes .. No .. fever/night sweats Yes .. No .. 27.
> > Eye disease or Infection Yes .. No .. 8.
> > Peptic/Duodenal/Gastric Ulcers Yes .. No .. 28. Back Problems Yes ..
> > No .. 9. Persistent Diarrhoea/Vomiting Yes .. No ..
> > 29. Neck or Limb problems Yes .. No .. 10. Jaundice, Gallstones or
> > Hepatitis Yes .. No .. 30. Arthritis of any sort Yes .. No .. 11.
> > Hernia Yes .. No .. 31. Diabetes Yes ..
> > No .. 12. Kidney Disease or Stones Yes .. No .. 32. Thyroid or other
> > gland condition Yes .. No .. 13. Prostate/Bladder problems Yes .. No
> > .. 33. Any form of Cancer Yes .. No .. 14.
> > Gynaecological problems Yes .. No .. 34. Other condition needing
> > surgery Yes .. No .. 15. Tropical diseases e.g.
> > Malaria Yes .. No .. 35.Other condition requiring hospital Yes .. No
> > .. 16. Skin diseases e.g.eczema/psoriasis Yes .. No .. 36.
> > Alcohol/Drug misuse Yes .. No .. Please give fuller details
> of any of
> > the above conditions : Number/Condition Age or Year
> > Hospital/Specialist Time off work
> > *** Your Current Health ***
> > 37. How many days sickness did you take in the last 2 years ?
> > 38. How many periods of absence were there ? 39. How many times did
> > you attend your GP ? 40. How many cigarettes do you smoke per day ?
> > 41. How long ago did you stop smoking ? 42.
> > How many units of alcohol do you drink each week ? 43. Have you ever
> > had any disease or injury arising from work ? Yes ..
> > No .. 44. Have you ever undergone Health Surveillance in any of your
> > previous jobs ? Yes .. No .. 45. Have you ever failed a medical
> > examination of any kind ? Yes .. No .. 46. Have you ever been
> > medically advised not to do night work, shift work or any other sort
> > of work ? Yes .. No .. 47. Have you ever been rejected for
> employment
> > because of your health ?
> >
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 48. Have you ever left employment on the grounds of ill
> health ? Yes
> > .. No .. 49. When was your last eye check ? 50. When was your last
> > dental check ?
> >
> > 51. Do you have any difficulties recognising colours ?
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 52. Are you currently attending your GP/Hospital ?
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 53. Are you currently taking any regular medication ?
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 54. Are there any medical conditions which run in your
> family ? Yes ..
> > No .. 55. Do you consider you have a disability, which has
> lasted or
> > may last a year, which significantly affects your daily living
> > activities ? Yes .. No .. 56. Do you have any problems with
> Hearing or
> > Speech? Yes .. No .. 57. Do you have any problems with Vision (not
> > corrected by
> > glasses) ? Yes .. No .. 58. Do you have any problems with
> > Lifting/Carrying ? Yes .. No .. 59. Do you have any problems with
> > Mobility ? Yes .. No .. 60. Do you have any problems with Physical
> > Co-ordination or Dexterity ?
> >
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 61. Do you have any problems with Strength or Stamina ?
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 62. Do you have any problems with Learning Abilities ?
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 63. Do you have any problems with Continence ?
> > Yes .. No ..
> > 64. Any other conditions not mentioned above.
> > Please give details of any positive answers in the space
> > provided: Further details :
> > *** You and Your Employment ***
> > Please give details of your most
> > recent employment:
> > From: / /
> > Employer's Address:
> > To: / /
> > Job Title
> >
> > *** Fitness for Employment***
> > A copy of this page of your form will be used to advise
> Lincolnshire
> > County Council/HBS of your medical fitness for the specified
> > employment. Please print clearly. Surname Forename
> Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms Home
> > Address Post Code Contact Telephone No: Date of Birth / / National
> > Insurance Number EMPLOYMENT (For WellWork Use) Starting
> Date Leaving
> > Date National Health Service Number / / / / Position (applied for)
> > Directorate/Workbase
> > *** Declaration ***
> > I declare that all the foregoing statements are true to the
> best of my
> > knowledge, and I am not aware of any other medical condition not
> > referred to elsewhere in this questionnaire. I understand that any
> > misrepresentation will invalidate my application and, if employed,
> > could lead to my dismissal and/or withholding of pension
> benefits. I
> > also understand that I may be required to undergo medical
> examination
> > by an Occupational Health Advisor for pre-employment purposes. Your
> > Signature:
> > Date: / /
> > Please return this completed form to: WellWork Limited, PO Box 250,
> > Lincoln, LN1 1WP
> > *** Area below for use of Occupational Health Staff ***
> Refer for 2nd
> > Opinion:
> > YES/NO
> > Arrange Medical with:
> > Doctor ..
> > Nurse ..
> > Third Party Report:
> > YES/NO
> > Fit with restrictions which
> > are:
> > Permanent ..
> > Temporary ..
> > Disabled re the DDA:
> > YES/NO
> > Restrictions:
> > Fit for employment:
> > YES/NO
> > Date:
> > Signed:
> > Copy to:
> > People Services:
> > Copy to (if applicable):
> > Line Manager:
> > Copyright of WellWork Ltd. .2000.
> > Registered in England. Number 3886565
> > General Medical (Not Clinical) Record
> > Date last updated 28.10.03
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]> 24/01/05 11:00:09
> > >>>
> > I am not now and never have been keen on the alleged anonymous
> > questions to seek to show equal opportunities compliance,
> especially
> > with double sided forms!
> >
> > I feel obliged to fill out ethnicity. Presumably I should
> soon (now?)
> > feel obliged to fill out my sexual orientation. But I object to it.
> >
> > I do see the relevance of listing back injuries for those who lift
> > weight, but many of the questions are intrusive. As for the smear
> > test question....... Do we chaps get asked about our prostates too?
> >
> > Colour blindness for merchant seamen, airline pilots etc is
> valid. But
> > surely only to the men?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: 24 January 2005 10:39
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Medical Records form
> >
> > I have seen such forms and can give examples of the types
> of questions
> > asked
> > -
> >
> > Are you colour blind? (This is asked of all employees, not
> just those
> > applying for a job as an electrician or a bomb disposal expert)
> >
> > Do you bite your nails? (Apparently this is a sign of
> stress, rather
> > than a bad habit)
> >
> > When was the last time you had a smear test? (Again all
> employees, not
> > just the female ones)
> >
> > I thought these were likely to breach the Act unless properly
> > signposted as to their relevance - can anyone give more blatant
> > examples?
> >
> > Ian B
> >
> > -----------
> >
> > In a message dated 24/01/05 09:32:17 GMT Standard Time,
> > [log in to unmask] writes:
> >
> >
> > > I work for HBS supporting Lincolnshire County Council. I am not
> > > actually a member of the DP list but I am covering for Data
> > Protection
> > > in David Forbes' absence. One of the queries he has received
> > concerns
> > > a medical form which is sent out.
> > >
> > > I have attached the form for your reference and the
> concerns raised
> > > about it are below:
> > >
> > > "When I was offered my current job here at LCC it was on the
> > condition
> > > that I had satisfactory references and that I was also fit
> > enough, I
> > > had complete a Well Work Employee Occupation Health form (see
> > > attached). The form consisted of 64 medical questions which is
> > obviously
> > very personal.
> > > Although I did not agree with the form I completed it anyway as I
> > > really wanted the job and I didn't want to disadvantage myself in
> > > anyway.
> > >
> > > I thought that the attached form was breaching principals 1
> > and 3 of
> > > the Data Protection Act?
> > >
> > > I think that it is probably a valid point as although some of the
> > > questions may well be relevant to some jobs, all of the questions
> > are
> > > not relevant to all jobs. The point about filling in the form is
> > > interesting because as people have usually been offered a
> > job before
> > > they see this form they may feel that although they disagree with
> > > filling the form in they may well do so rather than querying the
> > form
> > > as they feel that this may jeopardise the job they are being
> > offered."
> > >
> > > My own feelings are that the form does not reference the
> DP Act and
> > > the nature of the wording compels you to fill in the details even
> > > though you would feel uneasy doing so.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Ian Buckland
> > Managing Director
> > Keep IT Legal Ltd
> >
> > Please Note: The information given above does not replace or negate
> > the need for proper legal advice and/or representation. It is
> > essential that you do not rely upon any advice given without
> > contacting your solicitor. If you need further explanation of any
> > points raised please contact Keep I.T. Legal Ltd at the
> address below:
> >
> > 55 Curbar Curve
> > Inkersall, Chesterfield
> > Derbyshire S43 3HP
> > (Reg 3822335)
> > Tel: 01246 473999
> > Fax: 01246 470742
> > E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> > Website: www.keepitlegal.co.uk
> >
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