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Priority: normal Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:11:49 +0000 Send reply to: Mitzi Waltz <[log in to unmask]> From: Mitzi Waltz <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Invisible disabilities and the disability card To: [log in to unmask] > David qrote: > >Mental so-called illness and brain damage are distinguishable. > >There are certainly brain illnesses (such as Alzeimer), and then > >there is clinical depression, OC so-called D, manic depression, > >etc. People with the latter 'ailments' are not sick, in the sence in > >having something psysiologically wrong with them. You don't die > >from OCD, manic depression, or scizophrenia. This is not to say > >that the poeple experiencing these 'problems' aren't in a fair amount > >of distress. But it certainly not like Alzeimers which will eventually > >kill you. > > I beg to differ, David. Manic depression, in particular, can and does kill--through suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, > and manic-state-induced accidents.>>>> As you can see above, my point was regarding the source of the two. Physiological vs social construction. I grant you the point that people who display manic depressive tendencies do engage in potentionally deadly behaviour, but is it not -- I'm sorry to say -- the manic depression per se that kills someone. Cancer, if not treated, will cause someone to die. People may or may not die from manic induced behaviours. Tumours can be located. Where are the manic depressive lesions? Also if someone displays reckless behaviour that causes death -- I imagine it's one the leading causes of deaths in western societies -- does that mean that there is such a thing as "reckless disorder"? It has an incredibly high death rate (suicide will claim 1 in 10 people with > bipolar disorder)>>>> Yes people wtih manic behaviour commit suicide at a high than average rate. B/c drugs are prescibed to just about every person given a psychiatric label, I would argue that it's very difficult to conclusively determine that it is the so called illnes that is the cause of the suicidical behaviour. There is a ton of evidence pointing to the suicidal role of psychiatric drugs. I don't need to be lectured about this either as tried killing about 7 times while on SSRIs and related drugs. I've never tried once since being off the 'meds'. perhaps it's just hard for someone who hasn't experienced it>>>> or cared for someone else who > does>>>> Predicable knee-jerk reaction. I always find it amusing when people automatically assume that because someone doesn't share the same opinion on a matter or another that they feel particularly strongly about that it is because somehow the person hasn't personally been affected by the issue. to see the connection between the condition and the level of risk. As someone who has had to prevent a > loved one from jumping from a moving car, dealt with drug overdoses and alcohol abuse and suicide attempts > brought on by trying to cope with truly horrific suffering, and seen first-hand the physical side of bipolar disorder > and OCD (in the individual's case that I am closest to, this includes serious hormonal problems, sensory issues that > can be quite painful, pain from hypermobile joints, and more),I'm constantly frustrated that some folks continue to > insist that it's *purely* a social construct. >>>>> For your informatiom, I was diagnosed with OCD about 14 years ago. I have dealt with depression most of my life. I was also institutionalized 3 times in the past. I have undergone councelling for most of my life. I have a mother on SSRIs. I have an aunt with so-called bi polar disorder. I have another aunt with OC tendencies and an uncle who displays the same behaviours. I had a friend with severe form of so0-called agrophobia (or whatever it's called) I volunteer for two agencies for people with mental health issues. I am a member of organization for psych. survivors working to dismantle the system. I think I'm just as qualified as the next person to speak on the issue. Actually, the current social construct of mental illness tends to deny any > connection between physical symptoms and "mental" symptoms, basically denying that the brain is an organ of the > body>>>> I would draw the distinction between the brain and the mind... and causing additional distress to those who experience both types of symptoms, as well as stigmatising the > different ways of thinking and behaving involved.>>>> Please provide an example of this "stigmatising"? > I would also note that there is a good deal of evidence for a physiological basis to most "mental illnesses">>>> bollocks! I am quite aware of the psychiatric literature Madame, to the point that I will quite confidentally state that your statement is 100% false. There is such a "Good deal of evidence" that THE authoritative publication of diagnostic criterion -- the DSM -- continues to specify that ONLY SYMPTOMS should be the basis on which so-called mental illness is determined. Do you homework before you lecture me! I did a thorough investigation of all of the DSM publications including the more recent DSM-IV-R and I can tell you that in each of the Forwards to the publications, there is a satement to the effect that: "the actual cause of the mental illness is still unknown". They've been saying the same thing for over 50 years! -- which > I put in quotes here not because I doubt that they are real, but because I believe that they are illnesses, not some > kind of social construct from which someone can simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps (the right-wing > view, if you will, which still stigmatises the individual with the label) or that would no longer be problematic to the > people who carry these labels if only society was more accepting (the left-wing view, if you will, which denies that > there is any suffering from the symptoms themselves).>>>> The issue for me is not so much the behaviour. I don't question that I display Obsessive Compulsive tendencies. What I DO question is whether my behaviour should be put under a miscoscope, that I should be given the extremely stigmatizing label that, as much as I would love to, I can NEVER shake off, that perpetually defines me as "ill", as helpless, as an unfortunate sole. If you think that calling someone mentally ill is flattering thing, you need a severe reality check. I can tell you that there isn't day in my life that I consider divulging to the world that I have so-called OCD. And I have spoken to many people who swallow the medical line hook, line and sinker who acknowledge feeling similar stigma. Despite what you believe, they aren't any better off for being labeled with an "illness" that, for better or for worse, will never be cured. That's not to say that our society is not quick to slap a > medical label on someone who is suffering not from mental illness, but from the effects of poverty, abuse, trauma, > discrimination, etc. all of which can harm the mind (as well as the body) and which will not respond to medical > treatment because they are social phenomena. It's also not to say that we have anything approaching appropriate > medical treatment for the medical aspects, or an appropriate social model of mental illness that takes into account > the effects of stigma, discrimination, or inappropriate medicalisation.>>> Can' t you make the connection between "stigma" and an associated label? Do you think people automatically realize I "have" a so-called mental illness? DOQ ________________End of message______________________ Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List are now located at: www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page.