No it's not, Frances. It's an interesting piece of anecdotal evidence that
no doubt has hard and fast figures to support it. Janice's email suggests
to me that a proper programme of study would be beneficial into the entire
subject to see the potential benefits from all standpointS, including social
inclusion, theft, and impact to the organisation of potential increase in
usage.
After that was done, and if the findings supported your view, that MIGHT be
proof positive.
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Frances Hendrix
Sent: 11 October 2004 20:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo Identity
Fantastic
proof positive!
f
_____
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Janice Waugh LHC Workforce & Audience Development Manager
Sent: 11 October 2004 16:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FW: Photo Identity
Interestingly, in Essex we removed all requirements for proof of identity
when joining the library in 2003, which has resulted in an increase of
membership and no corresponding loss of stock.
Janice Waugh
Workforce and Audience Development Manager
Essex Libraries
Tel: 01245 436561
-----Original Message-----
From: Frances Hendrix [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 07 October 2004 12:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo Identity
Some very mixed messages here, but I note where you are emailing from.
Are we really in the same category as Banks and mortgage providers. Does
having some identification of address actually stop theft, what evidence for
this? Surely we are NOT a club, but a public service paid for by us all for
the greater good.
As for a National Identity card. roll on, I have so many forms of
identification at the moment that one card would be a great asset, and I
have nothing to hide so nothing to fear. But if we did have the card, I
would still wish public libraries to be open to those who live in this
country but haven't attained that status yet.
f
_____
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Lake, John
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo Identity
Frances,
All fine and dandy but the reality is that there is a need to have a system
which maintains a responsible use of public money. Any one can be a user of
a library but borrowing material worth £000's without any guarantee of
knowing how to trace someone is not going to pass muster with auditors and
ends up with disgruntled users who also want to borrow/use the materials
which people (agreed, a minority) do not return.
Being a member of a library doesn't exclude you from being a user/customer
of the broader service, nor should it, but being a member of any "club"
carries some obligations as well as rewards unless of course you take the
Groucho Marx approach.
Sorry but the beautiful world of anything goes is not a reality. Can you get
a bank account, a mortgage, a passport without ID requirements?
In Singapore the library card is the national ID card but are we ready for
that in the UK?
John Lake
Librarian
Barbican Library
Silk Street
London
UK
EC2Y 8DS
Tel: + 44 (0) 207 382 7098
Fax + 44 (0) 207 638 2249
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Frances Hendrix [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo Identity
I had almost missed this as 'Kevin' was unknown to me (I thought), so I
deleted him, more fool me.
I have been harping on for some time now about this idea of calling users
members. WHY? It is exclusive and does send wrong messages, unless of course
everyone is a member by virtue of the fact they are in the country, how ever
that may be., and that membership is dished out with birth certificates. We
are not a London Men only Club, we should be an all inclusive service.
I am delighted to hear Helens view, and the reduction in barriers to using
the library. I have never understood the over the top need for utility
bills, electoral rolls etc. Even long standing pillars of the community who
have never moved in their lives fail to return books on occasions, as I know
from my time working in a public library in a very up market part of the
country. I am reminded of the story told to me , by a very eminent
University Librarian, on when he changed jobs and tried to join the public
library when he was in a short term rented flat and as yet didn't have 3
utility bills, impossible to join)!!
There is a wonderful ad on the box at the moment, for one of the top banks.
The guy walking along is commenting on how he can use many services he wants
almost 24 x 7,and can speak to someone not a robot after holding on the line
for 20 mins and umpteen key depressions all at the users expense., it could
almost be re vamped for how libraries can be 'difficult' to use and join and
find open, when they are not at their best.
We do need a more freely available all encompassing perception AND REALITY
to encourage more and more users.
Thanks for coming back to me Kevin, and to Helen for alerting me you were
not one I should delete.
Frances HENDRIX
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of leech, helen
Sent: 07 October 2004 10:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo Identity
My perception is that public libraries generally are loosening up on
membership. Here in Medway we only require one proof of identity, and that
can be pretty much anything. It has made it much easier for people like
transient workers to come in and use the system.
It really worries me that this is against a background where identification
and security is being more and more tightly controlled. Recently the police
recommended that we implement a photo identity system for internet use. This
is not something that we are considering.
Regards
Helen Leech
Medway libraries
The views expressed in this communication may not necessarily be the views
of Medway Council.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 07 October 2004 08:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Photo Identity
I'd like to comment on this. I'm acutely aware of the fact that I am not a
practising public librarian so in a sense detached from the day-to-day
struggles of making systems work... However I am struggling myself with some
of the knotty issues of community cohesion, civil renewal and, ha, the place
of public libraries in all that. And I want to ask if we can try to get away
from the notion of 'membership,' because it inevitably implies exclusion.
I'm really not sure that I would want to see my public library service
investing heavily in a system that concretises membership, because once that
is established it could be even harder to break down than the existing
systems.
Is there a place for a discussion about a civil society in which borrowing
from libraries is less constrained by the formalities of membership? If this
has been explored elsewhere i would like to hear what the results were.
Kevin Harris
Community Development Foundation
The Neighbourhoods Weblog
http://neighbourhoods.typepad.com/neighbourhoods/
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries on behalf of Joan
Bray
Sent: Wed 06/10/2004 13:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc:
Subject: Photo Identity
In Nottingham City Libraries we are looking at using a photo
identity
system linked to our management system to assist with
stopping users using
multiple cards. We are not necessarily looking to put
photos onto the
cards although if anyone who has done this I would be
interested in details.
We are looking for any product information, plus any
thoughts on the value
and related issues. We have had quite a prolonged discussion
of the ethics
of this at our management team - anyone else in this
dilemma?
I will of course summarise any feedback for the list.
Joan Bray
Customer Services Manager
Nottingham Central Library
0115 9152833
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