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Point of information, according to the DCMS web page 60% of people hold a public library card. http://www.culture.gov.uk/libraries_and_communities/default.htm John Lake Librarian Barbican Library Silk Street London UK EC2Y 8DS Tel: + 44 (0) 207 382 7098 Fax + 44 (0) 207 638 2249 email: [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Frances Hendrix [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 07 October 2004 17:52 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Photo Identity But no one is suggesting a free for all, and that books would not be issued surely., simply that there is less red tape about registering and identifying yourself. And more than 50% of council tax payers do not use their public library. f -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David McMenemy Sent: 07 October 2004 17:26 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Photo Identity I think Robert's view is simply being realistic rather than being a sign of needing to loosen up. It's all well and good hammering a social inclusion agenda, but let's not forget that everyone who pays their council tax and income tax is actually paying for library resources. In the current political climate there would be an outcry if a laissez faire attitude prevailed. The 10,000 missing items for the BL is certainly an eye opener. What would be the actual price of this? I'm not asking in order to knock the BL, losing stock is an unfortunate reality for most libraries, but put a financial figure on it, and you could have a stick to beat the service with if you were that way inclined. Introduce that scenario to a public library system, start to add up the figures, and watch the tabloids go crazy. Some measure of access control is absolutely necessary if we are not to be accused of playing fast and loose with public money. I wonder what the Coates report would have said if one of the findings was that the library service studied lost tens of thousands of pounds a year in stock.... Just my tuppence worth. David --------------------------------------- David McMenemy Lecturer, Department of Computer and Information Sciences, University of Strathclyde, --------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Frances Hendrix Sent: 07 October 2004 17:14 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Photo Identity My experience of Blockbuster etc is far far simpler than registering (here we go again with very bureaucratic language) with a library. What I am suggesting is we don't have to have 'members', we don't need to go over the top, but yes have some details about people to differentiate, but we really don't need much. If you are going to pinch you can do it as a casual user surely/ And again what do we know about theft, what stats, what books, etc etc? I see in today's news the BL was missing 10.000 books in a recent check, and they have tight security to get into the book stock? Lets loosen up a little and try another way? f -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Day Robert Sent: 07 October 2004 14:23 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Photo Identity "Does having some identification of address actually stop theft, what evidence for this? " I am not sure it stops theft and evidence either way would be impossible to gather but I do think there is a deterrent effect on voluntary non-return of items borrowed (which, I admit, is also a form of theft). It also helps, albeit in easily circumvented, ways to prevent multiple memberships being set up by a single individual for malicious ends. I feel in this whole debate it's important to make the distinction between use of the library (allowing people into the building and use of any of the core services on site without any identification or requirement for membership) and membership of the library (the ability to borrow materials from the library). I imagine no library service in the UK offer the latter without some form of identification being produced (other than possibly an 'introductory/restricted' membership with limited borrowing privileges) whereas I would expect all authorities to offer the former. I am not sure banks and mortgage providers are analogous but a similar setup may be found in Blockbuster or Choices in terms of requiring ID to take advantage of services being offered. As DVDs, Video Games and the like (desirable, valuable and easy to sell on) become available in increasing numbers of libraries how would these remain in circulation without any check at all on those borrowing them? It is unfortunate that in this, as in many other services, it is the practice of the minority (system abuser) that drives the policy rather than the needs of the majority (system user) but dealing with limited resources as all public services do, is there any other way? Robert Day Cambridgeshire Libraries -----Original Message----- From: Frances Hendrix [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 07 October 2004 12:19 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Photo Identity Some very mixed messages here, but I note where you are emailing from. Are we really in the same category as Banks and mortgage providers. Does having some identification of address actually stop theft, what evidence for this? Surely we are NOT a club, but a public service paid for by us all for the greater good. As for a National Identity card. roll on, I have so many forms of identification at the moment that one card would be a great asset, and I have nothing to hide so nothing to fear. But if we did have the card, I would still wish public libraries to be open to those who live in this country but haven't attained that status yet. f ************************************************************************ *** The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you receive this email by mistake please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Opinions expressed are those of the individual and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Cambridgeshire County Council. 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