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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Talk about over-reaction! As a grad student, I once suggested that perhaps "eschatology" needed a rest. I was wrong. It just needed closer definition for specific uses. "Vulgate" as the abstract concept of the Latin Bible Jerome produced for his sponsor(s) makes sense, as does "Septuagint" for the supposed efforts of Ptolemy's supposed group of 72 translators of the Hebrew Pentateuch. That neither ideal entity exists, or perhaps ever existed beyond the idealized original, does not render the terms meaningless. But as VK preaches (partly blaming me), let's be clear what we mean by the terms. While there never was an original and homogeneous "the Septuagint Bible" in the broad sense of an ancient Greek biblical translation/edition (of course by the 4th century CE, such an anthology had been compiled and came to be dubbed "the Septuagint," in its various forms), and there never was an "Old Latin (Itala, Vetus Latina) Bible" in the same sense (although Latin translations of various biblical books were produced by various people in various times and places prior to Jerome, and these materials may also have been collected into a Latin biblical anthology by the 4th century -- what was Jerome commissioned to replace/correct?), there apparently was a selfconsciously homogeneous edition/translation of it all produced by Jerome around the start of the 5th century, "the Vulgate." I know, I know. What about the Psalter, for which Jerome did at least two editions. Are they both "Vulgate"? My edition of the Latin Bible (Old Vulgate) has the Iuxta Hebraica Psalter as an appendix, so in that sense, yes (or maybe yes minus). But that's what footnotes and careful definitions (and attention to context) are for, nicht wahr? RAK > Okay. I vote for scrapping both "Vulgate" and "Septuagint" as meaningless words > in a scholarly world. > > --V. K. > > Quoting John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>: > > > > I think "Vulgate" very probably is meaningless. Restricting it to > "Jerome's > > translation" is probably hopeless, especially as that probably wasn't > > exactly what anyone in the Middle Ages actually had in front of them. The > > "Stuttgart Vulgate" seeks to reproduce precisely what Jerome wrote, but as > > changes set in almost immediately, the usefulness of that edition isn't > > readily obvious. I would much prefer to have a 'typical Medieval Vulgate' - > > whatever that might be! (Incidentally, nearly all copies of "The Vulgate" > > loose on the internet are defective copies of the Stuttgart Vulgate.) Even > > the "Clementine Vulgate" underwent changes - particularly in the 20th > > century! The existence of a "Nova Vulgata" suggests that the unqualified > > use of the word "Vulgate" is unwise. (There isn't a single Old Latin > > version either, and seeing that Jerome was revising one or more of them, and > > didn't finish the task because he got interested in Hebrew ... ) > > > > John Briggs > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > -- Robert A. Kraft, Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania 227 Logan Hall (Philadelphia PA 19104-6304); tel. 215 898-5827 [log in to unmask] http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/kraft.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html