I think this debate might be characterised as Content vs. Process. There
is a danger that the old model of teacher as "transmitter of knowledge"
becomes replaced with teacher as "shifter of Office files".
Teaching only really comes alive in the "learning process" whether face
to face, internal (in mind), via chat groups or discussion lists or
email.
Some VLE ignore process at the expense of content (as do many teachers)
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Malcolm Ryan
Sent: 15 November 2004 12:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
them"
Well David yes a VLE does serve up materials from which students can
choose but who chooses which materials will be made available? In an
Open - Closed system, distance learning is often quite closed because
the teacher has decided what will be learnt using what resources. In a
more open system the students would choose what is learnt and how
including what materials and tools are used. In a VLE (although I have
heard of one or two alternative
models) usually the student does not have the level of 'control' to
allow them to be used in such an 'open' way.
David Wallace <[log in to unmask]>@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on 15/11/2004
10:31:15
Please respond to Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
them"
I agree that teachers not being able to see others course content might
be counter productive, however surely there is some kind of repository
enabling resources to be shared?
I don't really see where the train of thought regarding didactic
teaching is going. I thought that some of the benefits of a VLE is that
learners are presented with materials which will direct and educate them
and which they can access flexibly, ultimately with a view to passing
assessment and effectively and efficiently fulfilling some role in
society? As long as a VLE provides direction and experience of
utilising various kinds of resources I don't see what the problem is.
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of Ken Smith
Sent: 12 November 2004 20:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
them"
I would agree that like so many other items of technology many VLEs have
not delivered the goods. From the students point of view some are as
restrictive as old fashioned didactic teaching where the teacher insited
that the library only stocked the one course book. The way most VLEs
isolate students from content for other courses means that the student
is being driven by the person controlling the course. Where does that
leave managing ones own learning. We use Blackboard not particularly
well but it is very much the blind leading the blind. The way
Blackboard prevents users, including teachers from seeing content for
other courses is, I believe counter productive, The students get to see
one view point only and when teachers cannot see each others work there
is no incentive to share and what is worse, better materials may exist
in your own institution and you do not know about it. So far the best
systems I have seen are those where people have developed their own
system from their old intranet.
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of Malcolm Ryan
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
them"
Thanks for that Dan - how do others feel about the issue of VLEs being
institution driven and not really empowering students or am I on a very
thin piece of wood here?
Dan Stowell <[log in to unmask]>@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on 11/11/2004 10:45:14
Please respond to Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
them"
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:15:41 +0000
>From: Malcolm Ryan <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Snapshot survey on VLE funding
>
>Of course one aspect of all VLE whether free or not is that they are
>essentially about the institution doing things to students rather than
>empowering them. At a number of recent workshops with colleagues we
>have been introducing them to a number of 'free' tools such as
>Smartgroups, Quicktopic, MSN, Hot Potatoes, etc and extolling the
>virtues of them being set up and used by students in partnership with
>us (sometimes) so that
they
>have control of the technology. How many institutional VLE facilitate
>such an approach?
Moodle does have features to facilitate this approach - the best example
being that a course can be based primarily around open discussion.
Students can also create/edit wikis, keep journals, participate in
workshops - there are quite a few tools with the teachers and students
on a (roughly) equal footing.
In lots of ways Moodle follows a similar path to WebCT, but I think this
respect is a particularly interesting difference. It very clearly tries
to allow for a "social constructivist" approach...
Dan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Stowell
Faculty Information Support Officer (Life Sciences), UCL
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/is/fiso/lifesciences/
Room B07A, Drayton House, 30 Gordon Street, London
Phone: +44 (0)20 7679 5472 (within UCL: dial 25472)
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_______________________________________________________________________
Malcolm Ryan (Flexible Learning Co-ordinator) School of Education &
Training, University of Greenwich, Maritime Greenwich Campus Old Royal
Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London. SE10 9LS
TEL: +44 (0)208-331-9741/9230 FAX: +44 (0)208-331-9235
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_______________________________________________________________________
Malcolm Ryan (Flexible Learning Co-ordinator) School of Education &
Training, University of Greenwich, Maritime Greenwich Campus Old Royal
Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London. SE10 9LS
TEL: +44 (0)208-331-9741/9230 FAX: +44 (0)208-331-9235
E-mail: [log in to unmask] URL:
http://gre-guns2.gre.ac.uk/pcet/pcetweb.nsf
Work at home: +44 (0)208-488-6614 Mobile: 07808-594930 (SMS
facility)
Location:
http://www.gre.ac.uk/about/estates/maps/maritime_directions.htm
CeLTT Programme URL: http://www.gre.ac.uk/celtt Getting to Grips with
eLearning URL: http://www.gre.ac.uk/celtt/workshops
***************** List information: ***************** Remember - replies
go by default to the entire list.
Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
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