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I prefer the speeding analogy. It doesn't matter whether or not you intended to speed; whether you knew you were speeding; whether you knew there was a speed limit. With the very limited exception of medical emergencies, there is no excuse. However, for minor offences the penalty is light. 37 in a 30 mph zone is £60 plus 3 points on a fixed penalty system; however 87 would attract a dangerous driving charge in court. The points system acts as an effective deterrent to persistent offenders. My institution (and I know others) have now adopted a similar approach. Guidance in various forms is given on entry so that students are expected to know the rules. Minor first offences will be dealt with automatically by a proportionate fixed penalty plus further guidance to help the student avoid plagiarism in future. No time-consuming investigation is therefore needed for these cases. More serious first and all subsequent offences will be investigated in order that more severe penalties can be applied as appropriate. Jane Roberts -----Original Message----- From: George MacDonald Ross [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 25 August 2004 09:51 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Brief response to Mike Reddy Mike Reddy is quite right to rebuke me for gratuitously describing Frank Furedi as 'that ex-Marxist turned reactionary', and I withdraw that description as unworthy of a philosopher. A more objective and relevant description would be 'that self-publicising sociologist with ill-informed and reactionary opinions about the state of higher education.' Apart from that, our only disagreement seems to be over my analogy with the amateur treasurer. I think the analogy is a good one, precisely because ignorance of accountancy is indeed no defence in law. Plagiarism, like embezzlement, is a punishable offence, whether deliberate or not. And just as students need to be taught the rules of academic good practice, so treasurers need to learn how to keep their accounts properly. Students who fail to keep a proper record of their sources when making notes are behaving just like the treasurer who confuses his oranisation's income with his own. I hope this sheds more light than heat. George. ************************************************************************ George MacDonald Ross Director Philosophical and Religious Studies Subject Centre of the Higher Education Academy School of Philosophy, University of Leeds, LS2 9JT +44(0)113-343-3283 [log in to unmask] http://www.prs-ltsn.ac.uk ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************* ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html *************************************************************************