-----Original Message-----
From: Carole Wallace [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 April 2004 21:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers

Helen,

I personally don't think is immoral or unethical and I bet you would have to have a pretty good excuse if something did go wrong. What about an employers duty under the H&SAWA surely its is not any less of a legal requirement because it's a general rather than a specific duty?

 

Carol

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Helen Hannar [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 April 2004 18:33
To: Carol Wallace
Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers

To return to the original question ( I think!! ) should we be undertaking 'health assessments' (or whatever you care to call it) on FLT drivers using the guidance from the HSE, if the employers wish us to ?

Some emloyers wish to utilise HSE guidance to protect both themselves and their staff, regardless if it is a legal requirement or just advice. If employers wish to do this, being aware that it is not a legal requirement, and practitioners are using the HSE guidance how can they be accused of an immoral motive to earn income, as suggested by an earlier respndant ....or did I read that wrongly and out of context.

> Message date : Apr 05 2004, 09:51 AM
> From : "Amanda Dowson" <[log in to unmask]>
> To : [log in to unmask]
> Copy to :
> Subject : Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers
>

Carol

 

I agree with you, FLTs are not health surveillance, they are fitness for work assessments.

 

The HSE's guidance notes on "Safety in Working with Lift Trucks" (HSG6) gives guidance on the medical standards for lift truck drivers and states that the assessment should be done at pre-employment and at five yearly intervals from the age of 40 up to the age of 65 where they should have annual assessments.

 

The Assessment is also recommended after an absence of more than 1 month or after a shorter absence if it is likely that the illness may have affected fitness to operate lift trucks, or if there is concern that they have a health problem that is affecting their abilities to drive safely.

 

I think that we are getting confused purely with terminology rather than selling our souls to management for financial gain.

 

Did anyone see the email round robin that was entitled "Health and Safety Awards" where an FLT, carrying a missile had fallen off the edge of the loading bay drop? If there was ever a business case for developing a urine dip test to diagnose stupidity that was the it!!

 

Best wishes

 

 

Amanda Dowson

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carole Wallace [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 31 March 2004 18:50
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers
>
>

I'm up to be proved wrong on this but FLT driver "medicals" were never Health Surveillance. Rather they sprung from the problems some employers faced after years of putting the deaf, the blind and the daft on to FLT's when they could not find anywhere else to put them. These were the days when you found work for your employees, somewhere, anywhere rather than let them go if they had enough service in and they had served you well!

 

Again if my memory serves me fatalities involving FLT's caused HSE to look at Safety and Training for Lift Truck Operators and there later followed guidance on Medical Fitness for operators. Most employers turned to their OH departments who taking note of the guidance from HSE, Medical Aspects of Fitness to Drive and DVLA guidance for Medical Practitioners on Standards of Fitness to Drive developed Health Assessment for this group of employees  taking the standards set for HGV drivers as the norm.

 

Carol Wallace.

-----Original Message-----
> From: Helen Hannar [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 31 March 2004 17:16
> To: Carol Wallace
> Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers
>
>

>
> Some large employers are not keen to give up the idea of a Fork Lift Medical!

> I had mentioned this discussion to a Health and Safety manager of a large warehouse enviroment and his respose was that although it was not a legal requirement they preferred to continue with the 'medicals' as the Fork Lift Operators line managers were not keen to take the responsibility of deciding if some one was fit to drive a FLTruck!!

> It reminds me of a local authority who would send employees that stunk of alcohol to OH to see if they were drunk..they would not decide if they were unfit to drive and so left it to OH.

>
>
>
>  

> Message date : Mar 31 2004, 02:48 PM
> > From : "Greta Thornbory" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To : [log in to unmask]
> > Copy to :
> > Subject : Fork Lift Truck drivers
> >

Going back to the enquiry earlier this year on health surveillance for Fork lift truck drivers I was surprised at what some people were doing - and making money from! I made separate enquiries via an HSE contact, who made it quite clear at the time where the question first originated, and this is the official HSE response:

 

There is no regulatory requirement for health surveillance for FLT operators.
> >
> > There are certain regulations which specify when health surveillance will
> > be required (such as COSHH). Health surveillance should also be introduced
> > where the risk assessment shows that all of the following 4 criteria apply:
> >
> >    There is an identifiable disease or adverse health condition related to
> >    the work concerned; and
> >    valid techniques are available to detect indications of the disease or
> >    condition; and
> >    there is a reasonable likelihood that the disease or condition may occur
> >    under the particular condition of work; and
> >    surveillance is likely to further the protection of the health and
> >    safety of the employees to be covered.
> >
> > Unless these four criteria all apply when considering FLTs, there would
> > have to be a specific regulation that would impose health surveillance for
> > FLT operators.
> >
> > There is therefore no legal duty on employers of FLT operators to put in
> > place health surveillance programmes unless all of the four criteria above
> > apply. Whilst a certain level of health monitoring may be desirable, there
> > is no legal requirement to do so. The guidance "Safety In Working With Lift
> > Trucks" refers to gives advice for OH professionals about the
> > medical fitness of operators of rider-operated lift trucks. However, as it
> > states, the "standard should be regarded as a guide which can be adapted to
> > individual circumstances". The status of this is purely guidance.

 

Hope this helps clarify things a bit and we can get back to some evidence based practice and not a lot of nurses and doctors doing 'medicals' because they are nice little earners.

 

Greta Thornbory
> > Consultant, Occupational Health & Education
> > www.gtenterprises-uk.com
> > Tel: 01235 770156
> > Mob: 07778 518 027

> >

 

 

> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.637 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 20/03/2004

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. Visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives

>
>
>

> Helen Hannar
> OH Advisor
>
> OHServices (NE).
> Tel:- 01388 777962
> Mob:- 07950 154541
> Fax:- 01388 777962

> Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save £7.50 a month
> www.freeserve.com/anytime ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. Visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. Visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. Visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives

Helen Hannar
OH Advisor

OHServices (NE).
Tel:- 01388 777962
Mob:- 07950 154541
Fax:- 01388 777962

Join the UK's number one for the internet
Click here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. Visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. Visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives

------------------------------------------------

This Email together with any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the person to whom it is addressed. The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of the e-mail is forbidden and may be unlawful. If you have received the same in error, please advise the sender immediately by returning the e-mail and then delete it from your system.

As Internet communications are not secure, Martin-Baker Aircraft Company Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this e-mail or attachments. Furthermore, you should carry out such virus and other checks as considered appropriate to ensure that the opening and/or use of this e-mail and any attachments does not adversely affect other systems or data, for which Martin-Baker Aircraft Company Limited can accept no legal responsibility.