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Just for info..there are occ health professionals out there who carry out monitoring, read findings and give guidance on exposure levels. -----Original Message----- From: Greta Thornbory [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 05 April 2004 23:12 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers Yes, certainly. Certain occupations require that some things are checked on a regular basis. I gave the example of chrome workers who may have skin checks for chrome ulcers - this may be done by a manager or safety officer who knows what to look for, or the monitoring of radiation exposure by health physicists - the people who read and interpret the exposure monitors. These are not OH professionals but they are still carrying out health surveillance. I am sure that there are many other examples but these are the first two to spring to mind. G . ----- Original Message ----- From: Carole Wallace <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers Greta, Would you expand on your final sentence? "Health surveillance for example may not be carried out by an OH professional such as skin examination of chrome workers." Regards, Carol. -----Original Message----- From: Greta Thornbory [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 05 April 2004 15:10 To: Carol Wallace Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers Health assessment is a one to one interaction between a client (the employee or prospective employee) and an occupational health professional, usually a doctor or a nurse, for the purposes of assessing the physical and/or mental health status of the client. A health assessment may encompass other processes : Medicals: carried out by a medical practitioner Health surveillance: the surveillance of people who are potentially exposed to physical, chemical or biological risks at work(HSE 90) Screening: a process by which undiagnosed diseases or defects are identified by tests and that test is not one arising from a patients request for advice on a specific complaint. (Humphreys 91; Smith 92; Beaglehole et al 93) Health surveillance for example may not be carried out by an OH professional such as skin examination of chrome workers.. Greta Thornbory MSc RGN OHNC DipN OH PGCEA MIOSH ----- Original Message ----- From: Bradley, Paul <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers What were your conclusions Greta? -----Original Message----- From: Greta Thornbory [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 05 April 2004 14:10 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers I did this for my masters dissertation in 1992................... Greta ----- Original Message ----- From: Bradley, Paul <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers Hi everyone, Just to broaden this subject out a bit, Amanda raises an interesting point about terminology. I've become increasingly aware how some terms we use become almost interchangeable. We regularly refer to terms such as health surveillance, health screening, health monitoring, health assessments, medicals, fitness to work medicals etc, and I find that when using these with those outside of OH, they are interpreted differently from how we interpret them within OH. To some extent we ourselves may say one thing when, strictly speaking, we actually mean another (as this thread may indicate). I'd be interested in what others on this list think about this 'cross-pollination' of terms and do we need to shorten the list of terms or at least agree a set of appropriate definitions? What does everyone think? All the best Paul -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Dowson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 05 April 2004 09:45 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers Carol I agree with you, FLTs are not health surveillance, they are fitness for work assessments. The HSE's guidance notes on "Safety in Working with Lift Trucks" (HSG6) gives guidance on the medical standards for lift truck drivers and states that the assessment should be done at pre-employment and at five yearly intervals from the age of 40 up to the age of 65 where they should have annual assessments. The Assessment is also recommended after an absence of more than 1 month or after a shorter absence if it is likely that the illness may have affected fitness to operate lift trucks, or if there is concern that they have a health problem that is affecting their abilities to drive safely. I think that we are getting confused purely with terminology rather than selling our souls to management for financial gain. Did anyone see the email round robin that was entitled "Health and Safety Awards" where an FLT, carrying a missile had fallen off the edge of the loading bay drop? If there was ever a business case for developing a urine dip test to diagnose stupidity that was the it!! Best wishes Amanda Dowson -----Original Message----- From: Carole Wallace [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 31 March 2004 18:50 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers I'm up to be proved wrong on this but FLT driver "medicals" were never Health Surveillance. Rather they sprung from the problems some employers faced after years of putting the deaf, the blind and the daft on to FLT's when they could not find anywhere else to put them. These were the days when you found work for your employees, somewhere, anywhere rather than let them go if they had enough service in and they had served you well! Again if my memory serves me fatalities involving FLT's caused HSE to look at Safety and Training for Lift Truck Operators and there later followed guidance on Medical Fitness for operators. Most employers turned to their OH departments who taking note of the guidance from HSE, Medical Aspects of Fitness to Drive and DVLA guidance for Medical Practitioners on Standards of Fitness to Drive developed Health Assessment for this group of employees taking the standards set for HGV drivers as the norm. Carol Wallace. -----Original Message----- From: Helen Hannar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 31 March 2004 17:16 To: Carol Wallace Subject: Re: Fork Lift Truck drivers Some large employers are not keen to give up the idea of a Fork Lift Medical! I had mentioned this discussion to a Health and Safety manager of a large warehouse enviroment and his respose was that although it was not a legal requirement they preferred to continue with the 'medicals' as the Fork Lift Operators line managers were not keen to take the responsibility of deciding if some one was fit to drive a FLTruck!! It reminds me of a local authority who would send employees that stunk of alcohol to OH to see if they were drunk..they would not decide if they were unfit to drive and so left it to OH. > Message date : Mar 31 2004, 02:48 PM > From : "Greta Thornbory" > To : [log in to unmask] > Copy to : > Subject : Fork Lift Truck drivers > Going back to the enquiry earlier this year on health surveillance for Fork lift truck drivers I was surprised at what some people were doing - and making money from! I made separate enquiries via an HSE contact, who made it quite clear at the time where the question first originated, and this is the official HSE response: There is no regulatory requirement for health surveillance for FLT operators. > > There are certain regulations which specify when health surveillance will > be required (such as COSHH). Health surveillance should also be introduced > where the risk assessment shows that all of the following 4 criteria apply: > > There is an identifiable disease or adverse health condition related to > the work concerned; and > valid techniques are available to detect indications of the disease or > condition; and > there is a reasonable likelihood that the disease or condition may occur > under the particular condition of work; and > surveillance is likely to further the protection of the health and > safety of the employees to be covered. > > Unless these four criteria all apply when considering FLTs, there would > have to be a specific regulation that would impose health surveillance for > FLT operators. > > There is therefore no legal duty on employers of FLT operators to put in > place health surveillance programmes unless all of the four criteria above > apply. Whilst a certain level of health monitoring may be desirable, there > is no legal requirement to do so. The guidance "Safety In Working With Lift > Trucks" refers to gives advice for OH professionals about the > medical fitness of operators of rider-operated lift trucks. However, as it > states, the "standard should be regarded as a guide which can be adapted to > individual circumstances". The status of this is purely guidance. Hope this helps clarify things a bit and we can get back to some evidence based practice and not a lot of nurses and doctors doing 'medicals' because they are nice little earners. Greta Thornbory > Consultant, Occupational Health & Education > www.gtenterprises-uk.com <http://www.gtenterprises-uk.com/> > Tel: 01235 770156 > Mob: 07778 518 027 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com <http://www.grisoft.com/> ). > Version: 6.0.637 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 20/03/2004 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. 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