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I agree with the comments about the undesirability of reporting through Safety. In many NHS organisations, and some others, Safety reports through OH. This seems to me much more logical because trained OPs and OHAs have had many years more of postgraduate training and also have a breadth of outlook which few Safety Officers share. Many OH staff have H&S qualifications but no H&S staff. I have met safety officers who believe that changing their job title from safety officer to H&S officer gives them authority to deal with all OH issues - it illustrates the shallowness of their backgrounds, in many cases. We are used to treating problems in the round and advising both employees and managers. In my experience, safety officers see themselves as advising only management. We are also used to providing ad hoc professional opinions based on experience and knowledge, whereas Safety Officers only interpret the law. This can lead to a narrowly legalistic view that OH&S is simply legal compliance. It follows from that view that the place of OH is in the consulting room dealing with legal compliance issues such as health surveillance. I also think that many of my colleagues in HSE, both policy and operational, are not aware of the mushrooming of H&S posts. Some HSE colleagues see things as safety (accident prevention) versus OH (prevention of wr ill-health) and cannot understand why OH people are fussing. We are fussing because people with no qualifications or background in OH are claiming virtually the whole of OH as theirs. Some HSE colleagues think that H&S officers cost less than OH, so it is an initiative which should be supported as a way of getting OH to larger numbers. But no - in many organisations, the unqualified H&S staff are paid more than the majority of the OH staff. Other HSE staff have a concept of the "H&S manager" basically a lay manager to whom safety and OH report. I am afraid that this animal does not exist, in my experience. (S)he is either a H&S officer, or an OHA or OP. The best ones, in my experience, have been OHAs or OPs. Rant over - Kate ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. Visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives