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Good evening, for useful information re HFacid see HSE free leaflet INDG 307. Regards. Brian. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Richardson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 22 June 2004 19:52 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Hexafluorine vs Calcium Gluconate in the treatment of HF burns Sorry, I shouldn't have used the term first aid, I should have said secondary aid i.e. treatment at the department or after initial first aid. I can not quote the full procedure as the old memory ain't what it used to be, but the calci chewable tabs were a preventative measure for the minor incidents I guess. The rubbing in of the cream for 15mins is for some reason stuck with me. I also can not remember just what the criteria or size of burn before they were admitted for observation. I think the following 24-48rs after exposure could be problematic even if fine initially, please correct me if I am wrong. Paul Anne Harriss <[log in to unmask]> wrote on 22.06.2004, 18:50:40: > on 22/6/04 9:59 am, Tracie McKelvie at [log in to unmask] > wrote: > > > I was led to believe that water would "feed" the acid and cause further > > damage???? and was taught to rub in the relevant cream.???? > > > > Has the protocol changed? > > > > Tracie Mckelvie > > Occupational Health Nurse / Adviser > > Pembrokeshire College > > Merlins Bridge > > Haverfordwest > > Pembs. > > SA61 1SZ > > > > TEL: 01437 765247 Ext 393 > > FAX: 01437 767279 > > E-mail: [log in to unmask] > > > > > >>>> [log in to unmask] 06/22/04 09:41am >>> > > Dear Paul (et al) > > > > Sorry, but rubbing in creams is wrong first aid. Prolonged washing to rapidly > > dilute & remove acid on the surface is the most vital initial treatment. > > Topical applications of chemicals to precipitate the fluoride ion is a 2y > > response. If systemic calcium is necessary, then this should be by local > > injection, not ingestion. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Richardson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > > Sent: Mon 21/06/2004 20:00 > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Cc: > > Subject: Re: Hexafluorine vs Calcium Gluconate in the treatment of HF burns > > > > > > > > Hi, > > HF acid, as I remember back to working in a large oil refinery on the > > Red Sea coast of Saudi, is really not nice stuff and definatley not > > something one can take lightly. The first aid procedure I recall is > > that the cream is rubbed into the burn (if =>2.5cm)for 15 minutes after > > intial contact with skin. Anything bigger than that needed calcium > > chewable tablets(name escapes me) or IV. The fact that the refinery > > produced gallons of the stuff as a by product of the refining process, > > and location of the refinery meant that one had to have these protocols > > in place. > > Regards > > Paul > > "Swann, Alan B" wrote on 21.06.2004, 13:52:12: > >> There is a extremely good review just published in the journal Burns > >> > >> Burns. 2004 Jun;30(4):391-8. > >> > >> Instructive reading, explaining why HF burns behave oddly (e.g. little > >> surface effect but major deeper effects upsetting electrolyte balance) & some > >> cautionary tales (death from severe electrolyte imbalance in a 2.5% surface > >> area burn!) > >> > >> I'd recommend as compulsory reading for anyone who has HF burns as a hazard > >> on their manor. > >> > >> The review emphasises that irrigation is the first line Rx. Other chemical > >> treatments follow this. > >> It rates the efficacy of Hexafluorine & topical Calcium Gluconate as good, > >> but insufficient information available on Hexafluorine o side effects to > >> compare against other efficacious treatments. > >> > >> For very small burns, as is the usual in university laboratories, you should > >> also consider water as 1st line treatment. Always rapidly available, > >> plentiful supply & always in-date. If pain relief is achieved, then the > >> problem is solved & 2nd line treatment may be unnecessary. > >> > >> This may be a situation like with cyanide poisoning, where antidotes are not > >> made available in labs, to ensure that the essential 1st line low-tech > >> treatment is not by-passed in the rush to use the sacred antidote. > >> > >> Aileen, > >> > >> Thanks for posting this. It has provoked me into looking at the evidence & > >> consider reviewing our practice! > >> > >> Dr. Alan Swann, BM, AFOM > >> Director of Occupational Health > >> Occupational Health Service > >> Imperial College London > >> Southside building > >> South Kensington Campus > >> London > >> SW7 2AZ > >> Tel: +44 (20) 7594 9385 > >> Fax: +44 (20) 7594 9407 > >> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/hq/occhealth/ > >> https://www.imperial.ac.uk/spectrum/occhealth (Intranet) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Higher Education Occupational Physicians > >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Aileen Stewart > >> Sent: 21 June 2004 10:47 > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Hexafluorine vs Calcium Gluconate in the treatment of HF > >> burns > >> > >> I am wondering if anyone might have current articles or information > >> evidencing the use of hexafluorine vs. calcium gluconate for skin or > >> ophthalmic exposures to hydrofluoric acid. I've been asked by one of our > >> labs about changing to hexafluorine but can't find much UK data to back this > >> up. Hex fluorine appears to be widely used as the treatment of choice in > >> Europe and the USA but I'd be grateful for any current UK thinking on this. > >> Regards > >> Aileen > >> > >> > >> Aileen Stewart > >> University Of Glasgow > >> Occupational Health Manager > >> Tel (Direct) 0141 330 8069 > >> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> Please remove this footer before replying. > >> > >> For list archives and documents, go to > >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives > >> > >> For jobs in Occupational Health, go to > >> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHJobs/ > > -- > > Paul G Richardson BA RGN OND > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Please remove this footer before replying. > > > > For list archives and documents, go to > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives > > > > For jobs in Occupational Health, go to > > http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHJobs/ > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Please remove this footer before replying. > > > > For list archives and documents, go to > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives > > > > For jobs in Occupational Health, go to > > http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHJobs/ > > " > Not sure what you mean by "feeding" an acid. Are you confusing this with > concentrated sulphuric acid. Water reacts violently with conc Sulphuric acid > when it is added to the acid but not the other way round. -Its all to do > with reducing the concentration. Even a conc sulphuric acid splash would be > treated initially with irrigation with copious amounts of water. > > Alan is quite correct water is always the first treatment in order to > dilute/wash off the acid as quickly possible. Only when that treatment is > complete should calcium gluconate be applied. > > > Anne > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remove this footer before replying. > > For list archives and documents, go to > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives > > For jobs in Occupational Health, go to > http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHJobs/ -- Paul G Richardson BA RGN OND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. For list archives and documents, go to http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives For jobs in Occupational Health, go to http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHJobs/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remove this footer before replying. For list archives and documents, go to http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html for list archives For jobs in Occupational Health, go to http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/OHJobs/