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For what it is worth, if online is "free with print", then no VAT is charged; if online and print are joined equally, then I suspect HM Customs and Excise will want to charge VAT on the whole price (or possibly some proportion of it). Charles Professor Charles Oppenheim Department of Information Science Loughborough University Loughborough Leics LE11 3TU Tel 01509-223065 Fax 01509-223053 e mail [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline Moss-Gibbons" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: Re: Springer's latest rip off Dear All, Nicholas Lewis raises a very interesting point regarding 'ownership' of electronic content if forcibly added to a print subscription. I would be very interested to hear from others in the serials cycle (eg agents and publishers) about their view on it. Perhaps the UKSG could get some represenatatives around the table to debate some of the issues and publish in 'Serials'. It would be unfortunate if this turned into a battle between different interested parties. A personal soap-box: these types of individual title subscriptions, from any publisher, should not be described as 'free with print' though, as it is a combined subscription (especially if not optional) then it is "included in the price" NOT 'free'. Best regards, Caroline __________________________________________________________ Caroline Moss-Gibbons Manager - Library & Information Services Royal College of Physicians 11 St Andrews Place Regent's Park London NW1 4LE Tel: +44 (0)20 7935 1174 x315 e-mail: [log in to unmask] http://www.RCPLondon.ac.uk _________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Lewis Nicholas Mr (LIB) l002 [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 26 November 2004 11:09 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Springer's latest rip off This is a very interesting issue because I don't think there was ever an option to purchase print + paid online in the past, only print + free online. Correct me if I'm wrong. The legal question is whether a purchase of "print + free online" is a binding agreement - i.e. that the institution is therefore entitled to that access because it was listed as part of the print subscription. I would argue that, if there was no alternative for actually purchasing the online with print, it should be seen as part of each print subscription we bought. If so, the sensible way forward is for Springer to continue to allow online access to all the years where institutions have clearly purchased the print with free online option. They are of course at liberty to charge for the online from 2005 onwards. The problem is, if this is past agreement is not honoured, it opens the way for many more publishers to effectively "write-off" archival access to all past "free online" access which would be a very worrying precedent. I think it would be helpful to engage positively with Springer on this one as I'm sure they'll be keen to retain subscriptions. I expect it's part of the Springer/Kluwer merger issue which seeks to standardise the approaches for both publishers. Nick Nicholas Lewis Electronic Resources Librarian & Subject Librarian The Library, University of East Anglia, Norwich, Norfolk, England, NR4 7TJ Tel: +44(0)1603-592382 Fax: +44(0)1603-591010 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: An informal open list set up by the UK Serials Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda Davies Sent: 26 November 2004 10:33 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Springer's latest rip off Hi I have checked the archive, but can't find any discussion of Springer's latest move. I wondered if anyone else is as annoyed as I am that Springer are now expecting us to pay an additional fee for "enhanced" access to our subscribed titles in 2005. The so called enhancement is the option to pay more to Springer to retain our access to the volumes from 2004 backwards. This isn't an archive deal - it is material that we've already paid for in our subscriptions over the years. I don't regard this as an enhancement, I regard it as a rip-off and I have told the Schools that I liaise with exactly what I think. It could cost one of our Schools over £6K to maintain access, on top of the huge subs they already pay. The average increase is 15%, with one title having a massive 31% increase. My advice to this School would be to cancel the whole lot in order to send a message to Springer that this is unacceptable. Unfortunately they won' t be in a position to do this. I suspect the response from Springer will be that the e access was "free" in the past - but we all know that for most publishers free e access was granted at the same time as an almighty print price hike several years ago. Just wondered if anyone else was feeling as irate as me. I'm off to move Springer up my list of most loathed publishers. best wishes Linda -- Linda Davies, Science & Biomedical Sciences Librarian, Information Services, Cardiff University PO Box 430, CARDIFF, CF24 0DE Tel: 029 2087 0075. Email: [log in to unmask]