As previously mentioned, I vote for number 8 - which seems to cause great
anxiety amongst very clever people. It's also the one that gives me the
least work - there are transfers across borders, but they're sufficiently
unusual for people to realise unprompted that there are, for example,
security implications for sending Educational records to Siberia. Moreover,
references to Data Protection's European genesis and European links are
always a handy source of cheap laughs in a training session, so I'm all for
it.
Tim Turner
Data Protection Officer
Wigan Council
> ----------
> From: Donald Henderson[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: Donald Henderson
> Sent: 14 July 2004 10:28
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Favourite Principle
>
> I think mine has to be principle 3.
>
> The best definition of adequate, relevant and not excessive appears to
> be when records are proven to be inadequate (al la Humberside),
> irrelevant (but it might be later...), and, my absolute favourite,
> excessive (you keep what ?!!!)
>
> Donald Henderson
> Information Security Manager
> Perth & Kinross Council
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of datap
> Sent: 14 July 2004 09:59
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [data-protection] Favourite Principle
>
>
> Antoinette
>
> My favourite principle is definately principle 5.
>
> OH the joys of retention...
>
> "how long do I keep it!" they cry...
> "Only as long as is necessary for the purpose, unless there is a legal
> statutory period, or it attracts a large risk of legal action" I return
> "How about 7 years" comes the standard answer... "sigh..." I sadly shake
> my head in dismay.
>
> (Actually now I just say read the retention and disposal policy, but you
> get my point!)
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Ralph T B O'Brien
> Group Data Protection Officer
> Metropolitan Housing Group
> 020 8829 8070
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Cambridge House
> 109 Mayes Road
> Wood Green
> London N22 6UR
>
> www.mht-group.co.uk
>
> Views expressed may be those of the sender and may not reflect
> Metropolitan Housing Groups policy.
>
> >>> "Carter, Antoinette (CCM)" <[log in to unmask]>
> 13/07/2004 13:07:30 >>>
> Your favourite principle is the 8th?!! We should have an Alan
> Partridge/Radio Norwich style "hot topic" poll....... what is your
> favourite DP principle? Mine would have to be 6th - power to the people,
> and all that.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> Sent: 13 July 2004 11:52
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 - sharing
> info
>
> Ian
>
> I would never say that the First Principle should be ignored - it's my
> second favourite after the Eighth. Fairness is fairness. It involves
> deciding whether an action is fair in relation to the person whose
> information might be shared. Of course, I would have expected that
> laywers should be consulted on issues of human rights, common law and
> natural justice, but I'm intrigued to find someone who thinks they can
> be dealt with by a DPO.
>
> It's easy to create an orthodoxy where sharing is evil, consent is king,
> and Data Protection is made as complicated as possible so that only a
> limited number of people can understand it and give advice about it.
> It's harder to attempt to make the thing work in practice, bearing in
> mind that legislation and practicality means that data sometimes gets
> shared, and for good reasons.
>
> Tim
>
> > ----------
> > From: Ian Mansbach[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Reply To: Ian Mansbach
> > Sent: 13 July 2004 10:43
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 -
> sharing
> > info
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > Surely you aren't saying one should ignore the First Principle
> because
> > some
> > of the issues are "massive and disputed". I'm intrigued to know
> exactly
> > what
> > considerations are included in a Wigan Fairness Moment?
> >
> > Ian Mansbach
> > Mansbachs
> > Data Protection Practitioners
> > [log in to unmask]
> > phone: 0871 716 5060
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> > Sent: 13 July 2004 09:58
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 - sharing
> info
> >
> > Ian
> > Because the latter two are massive and disputed concepts, and I have
> also
> > heard huge arguments about the interpretation of the former. If
> you're
> > suggesting that the majority of DP officers pause before giving any
> advice
> > and have the Human Rights Moment, then the Common Law Moment, and
> then
> the
> > Natural Justice moment, and then deliver the advice (all of this on
> the
> > telephone), I'm either incredibly in awe of them, or a teeny bit
> > sceptical. I do consider whether the response to any given case seems
> > fair, but running
> > through the implications of Natural Justice is a bit much for me on
> a
> > Tuesday morning.
> > Tim
> > > ----------
> > > From: Ian Mansbach[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Reply To: Ian Mansbach
> > > Sent: 13 July 2004 09:39
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 -
> sharing
> > > info
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > How can you not include human rights, common law and natural
> justice
> > > when considering fairness and lawfulness?
> > >
> > > Ian Mansbach
> > > Mansbachs
> > > Data Protection Practitioners
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > phone: 0871 716 5060
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> > > Sent: 13 July 2004 08:50
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 -
> sharing
> > > info
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm probably being argumentative for the sake of it (I don't like
> > > Tuesdays), but this approach worries me. Either data-sharing is
> legal,
> > > or it isn't. Either you can satisfy the DP conditions, or you
> can't.
> > > There is no escape from that. Even if you don't ask for consent,
> you
> > > may very well have to tell
> > > people what you're doing or likely to be doing with their data.
> However,
> > > to
> > > start from the presumption that all data sharing must include
> consent
> > just
> > > reduces the options. It puts the DP officer in the likely position
> of
> > > being
> > > the person in the room who always says no. In my opinion, there is
> > nothing
> > > worse for an organisation aspiring to be DP compliant than the DP
> > officer
> > > being associated entirely with the word "No." If you say no (or
> > 'consent')
> > > all the time, it doesn't make the organisation more compliant, it
> just
> > > makes
> > > it more likely that people won't ask for advice any more. Besides,
> > consent
> > > is useless if you don't have the vires to share in the first
> place.
> > >
> > > Is it unfair to suggest that your view is doctrinal - i.e. nothing
> is
> > > legitimate without consent? What I took from your answer is that
> there
> > > isn't a substantial public interest test, not a formal one. Now,
> you
> > > mention "proportionality rules". Where are these rules? If every
> piece
> > > of advice I gave had to include considerations of human rights,
> common
> > > law and natural justice, I wouldn't leave the house.
> > >
> > > Tim Turner
> > > Data Protection Officer
> > > Wigan Council
> >
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