In message <005801c42168$9de0d750$0a3468d5@ntlworld>, ianwelton
<[log in to unmask]> writes
>> My theory is that most Americans welcome the opportunity that
>> an ID card gives, to discourage anti-social behaviour as well
>> as illegal behaviour.
>
>A welcome in one community segment can be anathema to another. What is anti
>social to one social group can be good manners to another.
The people whose views count here are "middle-class Americans".
>If what you say is correct, Americans are becoming more interested in a safe
>and cosseted lifestyle than an entrepreneurial one and consequentially are
>willing to sacrifice some freedoms to achieve that.
They want America to be "safe and secure". This is trumpeted out
constantly in the news media. Not once have I heard anyone say they want
America to be "free", let alone "anarchic" (in the sense of being
deregulated). Of course, they *think* America *is* free, and to some
extent that's true. The *country* [as personified by the President] is
free to do whatever it wants, but the *inhabitants* are certainly not as
free as they think they are. Although *companies* are free to be more
antisocial - towards their workers, the environment and other companies
- than is typical in Europe; which keeps entrepreneurship high up the
agenda.
I don't know if people picked up the gay-marriage-in-California issue a
month or so ago (whether it should be legal or not). Well,
notwithstanding that, the State of California has now put the names of
all the people it did marry up for sale to marketers, on the basis that
it's already public information (and no opt-out like the UK's electoral
register, I bet!)
>> Or the State can say: "I won't let you into the airport
>> unless you show ID", as part of the anti-terrorism Patriot
>> Act (or whatever).
>
>Mandatory ID does not improve security in that context
But the American public believes it does. Which all that matters to the
people concerned. Indeed, everyone is being severely criticised at the
moment for not introducing more controls sooner - despite all the
officials saying such controls would not have stopped 9-11 !!!!
>>Some
>> people have suggested things like "medical records" should be
>> stored on them, but in practice this isn't done.
>
>If that conjecture were true
What conjecture - that some people have suggested medical records might
be usefully stored on an ID card. Or that no-one has actually deployed
an ID card that stores medical records. As far as I can see *both* are
true.
>, the marketing segment of the economy would not
>exist, principles 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 would not be as important as they appear
>to be in practice and other legislative restrictions on the use of personal
>identity numbers and material would not be necessary.
>
>> There's an old saying that "freedom of speech does not extend
>> to shouting FIRE in a crowded theatre". The same is true of
>> other constitutional protections. The list of practical
>> exceptions that the American public are happy to go along
>> with just grows and grows.
[snip Privacy declaration by Senate Cttee]
>That statement appears to be an opposing stance to the approach taken
>in some European states during the 1980's and seems totally
>contradictory to what you are observing as happening now.
In terms of Government information-gathering, it's still pretty much on
the ball. The recent Total Information Awareness project was scrapped as
a result.
However, having to show your driving licence to buy beer is not regarded
by the American people as "information gathering". It's a necessary and
laudable precaution to stop teenagers drink-driving.
>> Over the weekend it has emerged that the ID card is to be
>> based on the Passport, and that (once fully rolled out) it
>> will be required to gain access to NHS and other benefits.
>
>Together with containing a chip, there is a need to remember the statement
>three paragraphs back which ends "but in practice this isn't done."
>Practices as we have both acknowledged do change.
Indeed, as we must be vigilant. The first generation chips are unlikely
to have the storage capacity to keep anything like a useful medical
record, though. In any event, there needs to be a central copy of the
record in case the card is lost, so why not have *just* the central
record (which is exactly what the NHS seems to be doing).
--
Roland Perry
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