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I love this, Lawrence. As you know everything and are obviously morally superior tell me what to do about something: in the last two weeks my Vicky has gone back on the crack-cocaine, this is because she has had been allowed some access to her kids and the emotional kick-back has thrown her off the straight and narrow, her suppliers are Muslim Somalian so-called asylum seekers who refer to her in such dulcet terms as 'that fucking white woman'. I've freaked out as a result and don't know what to do. So tell me, how do I 'solve' this problem? Where's the un-geo-political answer? Just as where is the answer to Margaret Hassan being executed or Theo Van Gogh being butchered on his bicycle (for his artistic integrity) or too that US Marine shooting a wounded man on the floor in a mosque? I don't know and I'd love to see what simplistic airs you can produce on any of these matters, and much more else besides. What I know is that I don't know and don't pretend to be any better than that. Okiedokie? Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 1:48 PM Subject: Re: anti-american, I do not wish to discuss another member of the list with Mr Bircumshaw. I do not wish to attempt any discussion with Mr Bircumshaw; I have given that up. I do wish not to be the subject of his intrusive, offensive and ignorant attacks. L -----Original Message----- From: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Date: 19 November 2004 12:49 Subject: Re: anti-american, >>Mr Bircumshaw has the advantage over me, in that if I answer this malicious >crap it will be terminally boring > > >L< > >Lawrence, you've done it again, that is presenting an assertion as an argument. Your statement allows for no discussion, instead, by >flamboyantly not answering anything, you therefore imply that what I said is nothing - 'malicious crap' indeed! What interest or >purpose would I have to be 'malicious' to you? I made two points of fact: the one that you tried to make out I was a pseudonym for >somebody else, which you did when I first joined this list, which is on the archives if anyone can be bothered to check, the other >that you tried to get Robin's e-mail access removed recently because you don't like things he says , he's actually calmer than me >about it. I have no self-interest or ulterior motive in maintaining this non-conversation, I find it something worse than >'terminally boring'. >Tell me something about poetry instead, that's what lists such as this are supposed to be about. Last night, for instance, I was >talking to two Russians, highly literate people both, who had never heard of Khodasevitch and were amazed that I had but couldn't >tell me for sure how his name should be pronounced! I love things like that that the art can produce in one's life. >'s lot better than all these wrangles. > >All the Best > >Dave > > > >David Bircumshaw > >Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet >& Painting Without Numbers > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]> >To: <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 10:31 AM >Subject: Re: anti-american, > > >Mr Bircumshaw has the advantage over me, in that if I answer this malicious >crap it will be terminally boring > > >L > > >-----Original Message----- >From: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> >To: Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>; >[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> >Date: 19 November 2004 00:06 >Subject: Re: anti-american, > > >>>One cannot justify bad behaviour by pointing to worse >> >>L< >> >>This is quite true, Lawrence, and on the same grounds can you justify your >own tone of moral self-righteousness in respect of your >>recent attempt to get Robin Hamilton debarred from e-mail access because he >had the nerve to disagree with you, which action on your >>part I thought both laughable and despicable, his ISP didn't take you >seriously either, OR can you explain away what you did to me >>when I was first on a poetry list. i.e. fake a claim that I was a pseudonym >for a literary enemy of yours? Huh huh? >> >>You get away with one verbal atrocity after another, that's opinion, I >don't like bullies, but the matters I refer to are simply >>facts, there's no dispute that they happened. Get off the high ground and >talk to people as a fellow human, I'll welcome you down on >>the plateau, and shake your hand in fellowship. >> >>All the Best >> >>Dave >> >> >> >>David Bircumshaw >> >>Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet >>& Painting Without Numbers >> >>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]> >>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 11:25 PM >>Subject: Re: anti-american, >> >> >>One cannot justify bad behaviour by pointing to worse >> >>L >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jeremy Green <[log in to unmask]> >>To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> >>Date: 18 November 2004 18:27 >>Subject: Re: anti-american, >> >> >>>Quoting Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>: >>> >>>> If they were all voting against Bush only, that would be something; but >>>> Kerry isn't that far from Bush; and I assume many who voted for him >>wanted >>>> him >>>> >>> >>>The differences will be abundantly clear once Bush has stuffed the Supreme >>>Court with far-right ideologues and reversed Roe vs. Wade, when the neocon >>>foreign policy has moved on Iran, when the remaining tatters of welfare >>>programs have been stripped away, and when the tax system has been >reformed >>>still further in favor of the rich... >>> >> >> >> >