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Marika, Not just horror stories - we are talking of atrocities on a huge scale, often genocidal proportions against a poor and defenceless black/brown population who are minding their own business. But the perpetrators are powerful and routinely get away with their crimes (and the victims' resources). There seems to be some legalism that asserts that expression of regret is safe but apologies imply admission of wrong doing and therefore liability for reparations. But whatever happened to the Christian conscience, a sense of contrition, remorse & repentance? In 1998, German President Herzog visited Namibia and met Herero leaders. Chief Munjuku Ngunvanva demanded a public apology and compensation. Herzog expressed regret but stopped short of an apology. He also pointed out that reparations were out of the question, adding that rules on the protection of rebels and the civilian population were not in existence at the time of the conflict. Namibia's ambassador to the EU, a Herero, said: "The Hereros have read that gold taken from the Jews by the Nazis is being restored and the Jews in Israel being compensated. If others are being compensated, then why not us?" Because you are black, perhaps. Dr Manning Marable (prof of History & Political Science at Columbia) has written on a host of subjects, including reparations. Here is a quote: At the United Nations World Conference Against Racism at Durban (2001), the brilliant international attorney and former Foreign Minister of Jamaica, the Hon Dudley Thompson, explained to hundreds attending the reparations plenary session: "Reparations is not about asking for money. You can't pay me for your raping my grandmother. You cannot compensate me for lynching my father. What we demand is the restitution of our human dignity, the restoration of full equality, politically, socially and economically, between the oppressors and the oppressed ." ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Marika@oare To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:55 PM Subject: Re: Sadistic cruelty in Empires, old and new Horror stories are endless... or so it seems to me. However, while I do not wish to exonerate the Brits, the Yanks, or any other Whites from the tortures, humiliations, massacres they inflicted on Others (now or in the past), at times they inflicted these on each other. And we must also acknowledge, I think, that other peoples, eg the Japanese, Pol Pot, have behaved equally horrifically. Which does not, of course, excuse so-called civilised Whites' 'misbehaviour'.