 |
 |
this is typical 'academics' nit picking and presumptuous that the world divides neatly into 'statisticians' and non-statisticans which it does not. you don;t need a degree in stats to read an axis on a graph. further, I am not a non-statistician, with a degree in mathematics, nine years in commercial business in operational research and related fields and an MSc in Comparative Social Policy before joining the health service. You have a point that WTE would possibly reduce the number of nurses but the issue of headcounts is only partially relevant, as each nurse must still be qualified, therefore trained, whether that nurse works part-time or not. Also, a trained nurse may not work in one hospital or trust but over several, so adding up the WTE bits will come to 'almost' the same number of nurses anyway, providing, i grant you, that the nurse is not being head-counted in two trusts twice. But you say the Audit commission has reviewed the figures, so we can presume this has not happened. I submit that the issue is of relevance to the group, if there is something more in the stats that is 'dodgy', from a statistical point of view. I simply cannot see it. sorry. maybe i'm too stupid. Information Team Manager Mobile 07775 687 538 Pager 07659 104 758 Office 0121 627 8923 Internal x 8516 -----Original Message----- From: Macfarlane, Alison [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 27 July 2004 17:13 To: 'Clive Ingram'; [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: PM's dodgy use of statistics Sorry, I was in a hurry so didn't repeat the point I made in a previous email to non-statisticians. This is that although the quality of the data used may have been accredited by the Audit Commission, it is the presentation which is dodgy in that very few graphs start at zero on the vertical axis, so the extent of change is exaggerated. There is also the issue of using headcounts rahter than whole time equivalent for nuses. I didn't look at all closely at non-health subjects, but there were loads of vertical axes starting well above zero, Alison Macfarlane PS. We will very shortly get our knuckles wrapped, as allstat is not a discussion list. If you would like to discuss it further, we should do so off list or on the radstats list. -----Original Message----- From: Clive Ingram [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] Sent: 27 July 2004 16:44 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: PM's dodgy use of statistics If these stats are 'dodgy' then I think you need to prove it. I'm not in a position to query them, not having access to any but our own at this hospital, but they do not look that 'dodgy' to me. Have any of the academics any real evidence that they are not right? Or are you making a political point? Information Team Manager Mobile 07775 687 538 Pager 07659 104 758 Office 0121 627 8923 Internal x 8516 -----Original Message----- From: Macfarlane, Alison [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] Sent: 27 July 2004 16:36 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: PM's dodgy use of statistics Try this http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page6153.asp <http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page6153.asp> -----Original Message----- From: Janet Peacock [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] Sent: 27 July 2004 16:27 To: Macfarlane, Alison Subject: RE: PM's dodgy use of statistics Alison I seems to have been removed already -- someone has noticed!! Janet __________________________________________________ Janet Peacock Professor of Health Statistics Dept of Health and Social Care Brunel University Borough Road Isleworth TW7 5DU Tel : 020 8891 0121 x 2503 Email : [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: A UK-based worldwide e-mail broadcast system mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]On Behalf Of Macfarlane, Alison Sent: 27 July 2004 16:21 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: PM's dodgy use of statistics See Michael Barber's presentation on the No 10 web site. This was cascaded to us at work via the Statistics Commission. David Rhind said guardedly that it looks impressive at first sight. Too right, take a second look!! http://www.number-10.gov.uk/files/other/Press%20presentationversion%2021.7.0 <http://www.number-10.gov.uk/files/other/Press%20presentationversion%2021.7. 0> 4.ppt Alison Macfarlane Alison Macfarlane Department of Midwifery City University 24 Chiswell Street London EC1Y 4TY Please note change of address Phone numbers and email addresses have not changed but my fax number has changed Tel (44)(0) 207 040 5832 Fax (44)(0) 207 040 5866 Email [log in to unmask] DISCLAIMER: This e-mail contains proprietary information some or all of which may be confidential or legally privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s) only. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail and you are not the intended recipient(s), please notify the author by replying to this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely on this e-mail, as this may be unlawful. DISCLAIMER: This e-mail contains proprietary information some or all of which may be confidential or legally privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s) only. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail and you are not the intended recipient(s), please notify the author by replying to this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely on this e-mail, as this may be unlawful.