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OK, Chris, now what? Imagine that SATS have arrived and that within your timeframe of five years the University sector has decided that SATS are the thing to do. What do we do then? Rebel? Leave the job? Carry on teaching economics and business studies (to say nothing of accounting!) regardless? When you first raised this issue, at the time that reforms to University financing were proposed, at least a couple of us suggested that Universities were now faced with an opportunity to exploit (horrible word but you know what I mean) the new situation. Universities that really do put the student at the centre of its life will flourish and Universities whose methods would make dinosaurs seem progressive will fail in the longer term: just yesterday I went to a University web site to look for something and the home page had a link to their staffing section: they turned out to be the administration, personnel, estates staff … in my day the staff were the teachers! The same with SATS: if these are to become the method for sorting out the wheat from the chaff then someone somewhere will have to work with them whether we like it or not. One of the nightmare scenarios is that we simply take the American system lock, stock and barrel and use that as it is: it’s bad enough that everyone goes to the movies these days and buys tickets at the box office rather than the cinema and the booking office, let alone a US based University screening system. Then again, given the way that A level results have gone over the last few years aren’t Universities right to look for alternatives? Isn’t it true, hasn’t it always been true, that Admissions Tutors have always looked beyond level grades to identify the exceptional and the marginal? How do they identify the exceptional and the marginal: shouldn’t we want the entire process standardised and predictable for the benefit of everyone? Don’t SATS have something to offer here? Finally, can’t we rest assured that inertia in the UK will mean that your five year prediction will actually become the 10 – 15 year horizon as government and Universities will need a Royal Commission a new QUANGO an Ombudsman a Public Enquiry a new Minister for SATS then the education industry will have to sort itself out … Just a few thoughts Duncan -----Original Message----- From: Economics, business, and related subjects [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Rodda Sent: 12 March 2003 18:12 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: SATS Yes Julie – I brought the matter up a couple of months ago when I suggested we would have SATs in 5 years. Little did I know that this was very conservative and if you were reading last week’s papers you might have seen they are already here. Now this matters because it means a huge transfer of power (and money) away from us as economics and business teachers – and that is aside from the issue of whether it is good for students/education in general. In essence the arrival of SATs means the ends of A levels. Which in turn means no need for AS level book this and key revision notes that and A2 revision course X. If your livelihood is dependent on any of those – you should worry. We can all go back to using Maunder, Sloman, Harvey or whatever you used to like 7 years ago and for some that might be welcome. You will be able to set your own internal exam or if you like buy in something that the old A level boards will try to stay alive by selling – but ultimately the school budget will dictate you set something internally. As a body of teachers we will lose all or most of our say in what economics education should be if we are not careful. I must say that I don’t get any sense that we are in anyway concerned about the incoming tide. On 12/3/03 3:49 pm, "Julie Parton" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I've had a feeling of deja-vu reading this ... weren't some of these arguments explored some months ago? Have things moved along since then? Julie Parton Head of Business Studies, Young Enterprise Link Teacher, Key Skills Coordinator. Norton Canes High School Cannock, Staffs >From: Chris Rodda >Reply-To: "Economics, business, and related subjects" >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: SATS >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:21:00 +0000 > > > > > Well it looks like SATs are coming to Britain ú many universities are now > > trialling them for undergraduate admissions. > > > > I found a free SAT to try on the web if you would like to see the shape of > > things to come. > > > > http://www.princetonreview.com/college/testprep/testprep.asp?TPRPAGE=78&type =S > > AT&adcode=6772 > > > > Having predicted this sorry mess doesn’t mean I agree with it. > > > > From experience of this the downside is that as soon as you have received a > > university place based on SAT scores there is little point in completing your > > A level or whatever. So the advent of SATS, like it or not, spells doom for A > > levels, ú the only reason to keep going in the US system is that you can get > > credits for passing high school courses. So if you pass economics A level for > > example you a good chunk of Economics 101 as a credit, saving time (and money > > because you pay remember.) > > > > > > The alternative to all this, I believe, is to sort out the A levels before we > > get there. > > > > The up side to this is that its a whole lot less stressful for the teachers > > because the SATs are nothing much to do with econs/business teachers - unless > > we go down the subject specific SAT route. The strange thing about this is > > that teachers seem to be having no say in this at all ú is that a good thing? > > Have we collectively used up our store of credit. Or maybe we should be > > content ú let the universities worry about selection. > > > > > > Should the EBEA have a view on this? Should we seek to influence the exam > > boards and universities? Can we see an article in the journal on university > > admissions thinking for the future? > > > > Another thought ú if the national curriculum is to be let go in part or whole > > ú what is the prospect for a rejuvinated GCSE for Econs and business. > > > > > _____ Message your friends in real time - and for free. Get MSN Messenger today! <http://g.msn.com/8HMCENUK/2755> Chris Rodda 1 Cordrey Green Iffley Village Oxford OX4 4ER Tel 01865 776110 Mobile 0789 0487650 >From overseas 0044 1865 776110 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 25/02/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 25/02/2003