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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Dear All, our discussion --endlessly interesting as it is-- seems to me to be metasticising (or, perhaps, "morphing" would be a better word) into several different areas, with long posts dealing with several subjects. i suggest that, if we can, we try and keep (more or less) to a single subject in each post, perhaps with that subject noted in the subject field. i can suggest this because my last post rambled on and on and wandered all over the map. i'll respond to the questions of diocean maps, cloister violence, the original Abelard discussion in other, hopefully shorter and more focused posts. on the subject of "ferculum" i am blisfully ignorant, never having seen the word, as best i can recall. now, i can't say for *certain* that these "statio...fercula" don't appear in the Chartres documents --only that i didn't *notice* that they did, and i could very easily have overlooked them, since i didn't have a clue as to what they might have referred to. but i've never seen reference to suchlike objects/institutions in the secondary Chartrain literature, either, and i have a bit of an acquaintance with a good bit of that. so, i'd be willing to guess that, no, the terms don't occur in the Chartres documents. which is not at all to say that there wasn't some customs/institutions which were precisely analogous to the Parisian ones at Chartres --indeed, it would be a bit surprising if Paris were unique in the existance of such, just (perhaps) unique in the termonology used to refer to it. and i've been paying fairly close attention now to the obituary notices in the necrologies and other documents dealing with wills, legacies, etc. (btw --off topic-- here's a charter establishing the anniversary of an Abbot of St. Peter's of Chartres who died in 1150 : http://www.ariadne.org/centrechartraine/abbeys/st-peter/CSP391-2.htm ) in any event, it certainly does sound to me like we are dealing here with, as John noted, "a full-blown, highly institutionalized practice that probably had humbler beginnings" --this description fits so many elements of cathedral life, including most all of the customs of the chapter itself, after all. and one which, as Werner noted, then (later) referred to a "mere cash value, without any natural products." i.e., what was originally --in the time of, essentially, a barter economy-- actual food was dispensed; but in later centuries this in-kind gift was, like rents, etc., transmuted to a fixed monetary sum. how about this : *originally* what was meant --and what gave the name to whatever was referred to in the 12th c.-- was (John again) a "bier with handles", something that looked like this : http://www.gent.be/gent/english/tourism/museums/finearts/collec/fbreug1.htm http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/b/bruegel/pieter_e/painting/wedding.jpg just a "bier" (in this case, a small door, apparently) for carrying the food, which was then "set up" on tables, perhaps ad hoc ones just consisting of "saw horses" (http://www.handymanusa.com/articles/sawhorse.html ) on which the "biers" themselves might be placed. if i'm understanding Werner's references correctly, over time four (or five?) "stations" in (or around/near?) the cloister were established --by custom-- for placement of the "anniversary distributions of food" (isn't that what they are, Werner?). (Werner's statio = stand is certainly one meaning, but, John, couldn't "statio" also refer to a specific, customarily established "location", as well/in addition ?) then (gosh, this is becomming an awfully Darwinian and evolutionarily driven speculation, btw), due to the pressures of population, weather, violence, and simply the proliferation of the custom within the chapter and the corresponding need to *formalise* and *regulate* it (like any budding institution), these "stations" became semi-permanent "stalls" --Werner's illustration (http://www.abaelard.de/abaelard/images/020paris43.JPG --i had trouble accessing it too, but finally was able to, somehow) shows rather standard "stalls" in a high middleval city. (but they weren't *called* "stalls" because, originally, they weren't "stalls" but simple "stations" --locations/"stands"-- and they kept the terminology/nomenclature of their origins, just as John's "traditional" definition of "fercula" rather clearly had nothing to do with what they "literally" might have looked like in the 12th c. --they could have been "cartloads" at that time, after all) as i envision it, the retention of the original terminology would have a parallel in some terms which were the original reason why i got interested in the historical aspects of the construction of the Chartres Royal Portal in the first place, 35 years ago : in the cathedral necrology we find quite a few (about 20, in all) notations of gifts/legacies made "ad opus turris," which i (following the traditional interpretation of these texts by hapless art historians) take to mean "for the construction of the tower(s)" --i.e., the West tower(s) of the cathedral which appear, from the stylistic analysis of their architectural elements, to have been begun in the early 12th century and worked on for most of the rest of that century. virtually all of these "ad opus turris" entries can be dated (from the approximate death dates of their donors, who were, mostly Dignataries of the Chapter) to the middle decades of the 12th century, which, of course, fits the archeological evidence quite well. however, one or two (at least) of them definitely date from the *13th* century, so the question arrises, "What's going on?" --was there later work on "the towers" which initiated more, later, legacies to support it? or (and this is the idea i finally hit upon and which relates to the "fercula" question), had "ad opus turris" become a sort of "term of art," institutional, bookeeping jargon meaning, simply "to the building fund" --as the terms "ad opus ecclesia" and "ad opus fabrice" (also found in the necrology) refer, somewhat less ambiguously. now, i've gone off on another tangent, so i'll quit. best from here, christopher ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html