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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Werner Robl <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >Thank you for these wonderful links about Notre-Dame. http://www.learn.columbia.edu/notre-dame/index.html http://www.learn.columbia.edu/notre-dame/Exterior%20pages/People_2.html http://www.learn.columbia.edu/notre-dame/Exterior%20pages/People_4.html Dear Werner, yes, Stephen's got the makings of a very, very valuable site there (and the financial backing via Columbian & the NEH to see the project through). as best i can see, he's not responsible for that particular "People of Notre-Dame" part of the site, but i'll write him regarding what appears to be the error of attributing canonical status, at Paris, to the young Abelard. >As regards Abelard as a "canon" of Notre-Dame, this interpretation derives from Heloise's words, quoted by Abelard in HC: "te clericum atque canonicum..." mmmmm... this would seem to be rather clear, would it not ? he was a canon of *some*place ? >Abelard *perhaps* had acquired a canonry at Sens before 1111 (Geoffrey of Courlon, Chronicon Senonense: magister Petrus Abaulart, canonicus primo maioris ecclesie Senonensis...) again, rather clear. i didn't realise that he had a strong connection with Sens --though i know next to nothing about him, really. >but he had never been a canon, i. e. minor or major prebendary, this distinction between "minor" and "major" canons is not on which i've come across before --it does not seem to appear in the Chartres documents of the 11th-13th centuries, unless i overlooked such a reference. >of Notre-Dame, as well as a teacher of the "cathedral school" of Notre-Dame, which was first founded as corporate institution in about 1127 (Stephen of Senlis). yes, i caught that "cathedral school" reference as well, though i was not sure of how specifically anachronistic it was. an even more careless error than making him a cathedral canon. >Abelard's chair near Saint-Christophe on the Parvis Notre-Dame (outside the cloister) ? i'm not sure what you mean, here. did they set up "chairs" (literally or figuratively) at specific sites ? >former chair of William of Champeaux, which he took over in 1113, had primarily been linked to the archdeaconry of Paris this would have been Stephen of Garland, at this date, would it not? >and to a donation for poor students. >In his function as master of philosophy and theology, he *perhaps* ranked as "concanonicus" or "canonicus liberalis" of the chapter of Notre-Dame. This was not a "beneficium" but a title of honour, yes. also unknown to me at Chartres, though there were, of course, _ex officio_ canonries in the cathedral chapter granted to the abbots of various Chartrain monasteries (St. John's, St. Peter's, St. Cheron's, etc.) ; but whether or not these involved a "beneficium" (which i take to mean an actual payment from the _fisc_ (or whatever) of the chapter i've never been able to determine. >which could also been attributed to women (see Haildis the Rich and others in Molinier, Notre-Dame obituary). Last year, I have written a major piece on this (in German): >http://www.abaelard.de/abaelard/040206intro.htm a very substantial piece of work, from the look of it : "Untersuchungen zur Topographie von Paris und zur Alltagsgeschichte des Frühscholastikers zwischen 1100 und 1140" i look forward to seeing what you have to say about Stephen of Garland's chapel of St. Aignan. many thanks, Werner. best from here, christopher ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html