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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Problem with 'natural child' is that it acquires other meanings by the end of the middle ages - I remember a postgrad getting very excited about statistics for illegitimacy in C17 north Wales based on the number of references to natural children in wills. In medieval Wales there is no real concept of illegitimacy as such. What matters is acknowledgement of paternity. All a man's acknowledged sons, whoever their mothers, will share in his inheritance. (Though again, the concept of inheritance is a tricky one in Welsh land law.) This one goes right up to the inheritance of the crown. When Llywelyn ab Iorwerth of Gwynedd, Llywelyn the Great, died in 1240, the kingdom was disputed between his 'legitimate' son Dafydd, son of Joan (who was herself the illegitimate daughter of King John of England) and Llywelyn's older but technically illegitimate son Gruffydd. This may or may not be of some interest in the context of northern France. The church didn't like the Welsh practice - so I suppose what it does suggest is that ecclesiastical concepts of illegitimacy didn't have it all their own way. Does anyone know whether the same was true in Brittany? Maddy Dr Madeleine Gray, in the foothills of God's golden county of Gwent (Department of Humanities and Science UWCN Caerleon Campus PO Box 179 Newport NP18 3YG Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675 http://scarab.newport.ac.uk/mg History at Newport: http://humanities.newport.ac.uk/HIST.html Gwent County History Association web site: http://gwent-county-history-association.newport.ac.uk Cistercian Way: http://cistercian-way.newport.ac.uk 'How wonderful to have a Real Brain that could tell you things', said Pooh. ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html