Not sure the argument has been lost. MK confuses, in my view, the individual with the discipline. In my view science is distinct from technology. But scientists are very often technologists also. However, I fail to see how a scientist studying the mating habits of the blue tit could in any way be described as a technologist. Why do it? Don't know. Is it of any use to anyone? Don't know. There are plenty of scientists who want their work to be useful. Equally, I suspect that there are few who couldn't care less. -----Original Message----- From: MK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 06 November 2003 15:08 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] science, technology and research council policy Wow Jens. Incredible demolition job. Really interesting stuff. That PhD was not in vain. The depressing thing is that anyone can still adhere to the "science is different" mentality. Even the great "science ain't technology" zealot, Lewis Wolpert, is a little bit more sophisticated in his thinking. There are just so many other dangers in seeing science as separate from its applications. It begins with the "why do it?" question. If it isn't to achieve something, that is applications, then perhaps it should receive funding at the same level as opera, one of my other favourite destinations for public money. Rare is the scientist who does not, in these money pressed times, promise that their science will be of some use to someone. And this is not just a bid to get money. I was talking to a researcher yesterday who was just the latest of many who have told me that they are dead chuffed when someone in industry is interested in their work. Is there anyone out there who really is just in it to satisfy their own urges? The use of the science is, of course, the whole point of the debate. The "pure" researcher simply cannot wash their hands of the outcome of their work. "Not me guv. Someone else filled the syringe. I just sold the drug." It is because scientists have not become involved in the discussion that they have lost this unquestioned right to operate. MK _______________________________________________________________________ Michael Kenward OBE / Phone: +44 (0)1444 400568 Fax: 401064 / Science Writer & Stuff / Have words will travel ********************************************************************** 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the following message: set psci-com nomail 2. To resume email from the list, send the following message: set psci-com mail 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: leave psci-com 4. Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html 5. The psci-com gateway to internet resources on science communication and science and society can be found at http://psci-com.org.uk ********************************************************************** ********************************************************************** 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the following message: set psci-com nomail 2. To resume email from the list, send the following message: set psci-com mail 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: leave psci-com 4. Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html 5. The psci-com gateway to internet resources on science communication and science and society can be found at http://psci-com.org.uk **********************************************************************