Hi cris I take your point about 'numbers', it just seemed to be what you were implying, but I'm very painfully aware of how e-mail conversations can lead to misunderstanding. I'm not dismissive of poetry linking with other arts, I like it in fact, but neither do I look at that without reservations anymore than I look at poetry by itself without the same. I am very wary of certain emphases in our culture on image, technology etc but that wariness does not preclude a preparedness to accept the possibilities of extension. Can poetry be 'autonomous'? H'm, maybe it can suggest a kind of autonomy, something which is a metaphor for psychological integrity, to a holding together of the falling apart at least for the moment of the poem. I don't know, this is something I'm trying to work my head around, and crucial to whether I continue to write or not, can't say more than that at present, because I can't claim to have an answer. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "cris cheek" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:03 PM Subject: Re: where is the current avant-garde? hi david i don't mean simple numbers as in trying to just get lots of readers willy-nilly so much as looking for alliances with thoser who already appreciate other contemporary arts practices that are genuine peer practices to poetry that interests me. The work makes alliances possible. Those who like the music or video work of xxx (say) might not know about the writing of yyy (say). I know it's simplistic. It's about saying look what this writing is up to and see how the ways it is working is connected or conversant to other attentions you already have. You might find it worth paying more time and attention to what poetry is achieving. Poetry is surprisingly in the world and unfusty. And the point about Caroline's polylingualism is not to throw attention onto the poet but to throw light and sound onto the writing (since it displays poly-lingual attention). Poems never are autonmous . . .? are they? melody - rhthym and noise love and love cris