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Well I, for one, am always grateful to Lesley for always articulating so well our 'on the ground' problems. Unfortunately, and it is of course an understandable situation, user problems can never be fully appreciated by those who are not working directly with them. Lesley is also quite correct in emphasising that the purpose of this discussion list (which has proved to be of much practical use) is to inform and support each other. In this particular case, I had just been informed locally of one broken link but had not realised the extent of the problem; Lesley's email prompted me to check the other mm/cv titles. The other, again unfortunate but true, value of this list is to get problems corrected by publicising them to the correct person who can make appropriate changes. It's often very difficult for us as individuals, contacting a service directly, to get across the extent of the problem and to be assured that the cause of the problem is not of our own making. I hope Lesley continues to help us all in the unappreciatedly complex problem of maintaining ejournals. Thanks Sandra Sandra Morris Electronic Information Development Officer Hugh Owen Library Information Services, University of Wales, Aberystwyth, Penglais Campus, Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, SY23 3DZ Email: [log in to unmask] Extension: 1892 Phone: (01970) 621892 FAX: (01970) 622404 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Crawshaw" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:28 PM Subject: Re: Keeping Journal URLs Up to Date - How To Spot the Changes - An Example from Ingenta Select and Multilingual Matters and its Channel View Imprint > Hi Eric, > > The URLs that I was citing were the ones that appeared in the address > bar on my browser i.e. that I ended up at from our "stable" but > incorrect URLs - our OPAC URLs don't include load balancing and user > customization. > > Sometimes from we were redirected to the correct and up to date page for > that title, but sometimes we were sent to an out of date page for that > title. Whether you ended up at the "correct" page by being redirected > for that title seems to depend on which server you are lucky to be > redirected to. > > For IRGEE this was the URL on our OPAC (not mustafa.ingentaselect.com > which I inadvertently mistyped as the stable URL for this title): > > http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/mm/10382046/contp1.htm which has > now been changed to: > > http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm > > For the Journal of Sustainable Tourism this was the URL on our OPAC: > > http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/mm/09669582/contp1.htm which has > now been changed to: > > http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/mm/09669582/contp1.htm > > > Surely I have made a fair criticism in this particular example. These > problems may seem minor and insignificant, but if you are sending your > users to out of date pages, it's not a very good advertisement. > > And yes of course we should be encouraging services to provide good > documentation for librarians, but that doesn't mean that where there are > problems with a service that it shouldn't be open to criticism. Surely > this is all useful feedback and alerts those librarians who may also > have incorrect links that could cause problems for their users. > > And yes it would be great if the merry go round of merging, demerging, > acquisition etc. might slow down to make all our lives easier, but then > pigs might fly! > > Cheers > Lesley > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Lesley Crawshaw, Faculty Information Consultant, > Learning and Information Services, > University of Hertfordshire, Hatfield, AL10 9AB UK > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > e-mail: [log in to unmask] > phone: 01707 284662 fax: 01707 284666 > web: http://www.herts.ac.uk/lis/subjects/natsci/ejournal/ > list owner: [log in to unmask] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -----Original Message----- > From: An informal open list set up by the UK Serials Group > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Hellman > Sent: 19 June 2003 15:38 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Keeping Journal URLs Up to Date - How To Spot the Changes - > An Example from Ingenta Select and Multilingual Matters and its Channel > View Imprint > > > I had a look at our coverage for IRGEE. > > Ingenta does a rather nice job of providing information on their titles > and on their linking. You can have them send you files on a monthly > basis by e-mail. see http://www.ingentaselect.com/opacs.htm > In the case of IRGEE, the recommended URLs are > http://www.ingentaselect.com/nw=1/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm and > http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm These URLs > work. > > The ingenta select publishing system uses redirects to accomplish load > balancing, user customization, while at the same time providing stable > urls. The urls that you cite include session parameters and circoumvent > the loadbalancing, so it seems a bit unfair to me to complain that they > aren't stable. > > I know it can be disorienting to have a publishing service provide good > documentation for e-librarians. Seems to me that we should be > encouraging similar services to do as good a job as ingenta does. Now if > only we could get them to stop the merging, acquiring and rebranding. > > Eric > > > At 9:56 AM +0100 6/19/03, Lesley Crawshaw wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I don't think that we can be the only ones struggling to keep the > >ejournal URLs on our OPACs up to date. Although we are out to tender > >for a link resolver and portal system and will be looking at serial > >management systems in the near future, at present we have to do it the > >old-fashioned way i.e. by hard graft. Other times we spot problems > >purely by a chance encounter, as in the following example. > > > >We have had online access through Ingenta Select (and its previous > >incarnation Catchword) ever since early 1999 to 6 journals published by > > >Multilingual Matters, or is it Channel View Publications, its imprint? > >Strangely enough this is significant because the URLs we have on our > >OPAC for two of its titles, are no longer working, and all because the > >mm in the URL for the publisher Multilingual Matters has changed to cv > >for its imprint Channel View Publications. > > > >It's not the first time subtle changes in publisher imprints on Ingenta > >Select have caused us problems, we had some problems a long while back > >when Taylor and Francis reorganised some of its titles within its > >imprints, causing a change in the publisher code used in the URL. We > >also had some problems when Sage changed some of its journals codes, > >and links stopped working. > > > >I almost didn't notice that there had been a change because there was > >an automatic redirection in place on Ingenta Select for the Journal of > >Sustainable Tourism, one of the Channel View Imprints on my first > >attempt. Once again it depends on which server one ends up on as to > >whether a redirect is in place to take you to the up to date content > >for this title. > > > >It was only when I checked International Research in Geographical > >Education (IRGEE), that I ended up on Ingenta Select on a page where > >the latest volume was Volume 10 Issue 1 2001!! There was no redirection > > >for this title when I tried it, and the URL in the address bar was > >still showing the publisher as mm not cv as one might expect. My first > >question was has this journal ceased or is it running behind schedule? > >When I changed the mm for cv I got taken to the correct page where the > >latest volume was Vol. 11(2) (2002) > > > >Having reported problems with servers on Ingenta Select not always > >having the same content previously, it seemed that I was encountering a > > >similar problem and once again it appeared to be that some servers (or > >one at least) were not redirecting the link to the correct up to date > >page for that title. I have now reported this problem to ingenta > >select, so it may be sorted by the time you check some of these links. > > > >If I end up on the following servers there is no redirect in place for > >IRGEE and I end up on an out of date page: > > > >http://isacco.ingentaselect.com/vl=12676153/cl=11/nw=1/rpsv/catchword/m > >m > >/10382046/contp1.htm > > > >Or > > > >http://konstanza.ingentaselect.com/vl=3772318/cl=35/nw=1/rpsv/catchword > >/ > >mm/10382046/contp1-1.htm > > > >Or > > > >http://mustafa.ingentaselect.com/vl=1066404/cl=38/nw=1/rpsv/catchword/m > >m > >/10382046/contp1.htm > > > >If I end up on the following servers for the Journal of Sustainable > >Tourism there is no redirect for this title and once again I end up on > >an out of date page where the latest issue for this journal is Vol. > >9(4) > >(2001) rather than Vol 19(5) (2002): > > > >http://isacco.ingentaselect.com/vl=13145285/cl=29/nw=1/rpsv/cw/mm/09669 > >5 > >82/contp1.htm > > > >When did this change happened, well it must have been in 2002 judging > >by the content of the out of date page. So are we the only ones that > >didn't spot this? No! > > > >I then searched COPAC (http://www.copac.ac.uk/) to see if they had > >correct links for IRGEE. Only Birmingham had correct link for this > >title on its catalogue, all the others had mm rather than cv, in some > >cases they got redirected, in other cases they didn't. > > > >I then searched COPAC for Journal of Sustainable Tourism to see if they > >had correct links. Not one had the correct electronic link to this > >resource, although some got redirected. > > > >One concern about some of the entries on COPAC was that they were lots > >of different URLs for these titles, some linking to specific servers, > >some linking to www.catchword.com (which is still working), so with > >extraneous material in the URL that isn't needed. > > > > > >This episode raises a number of questions: > > > >1. It appears to be a bit of a hit or miss affair, if one is using mm > >in the URL, that one gets redirected to the correct and up to date site > > >for this title. It can't be very impressive for the users to end up on > >a site which hasn't been updated for over a year. Not a good advert for > > >ejournals. > > > >2. Who is the publisher of these titles? Is it Channel View > >Publications, Multilingual Matters or Multilingual Matters and Channel > >View Publications? Is the publisher aware that this change means some > >of us are being directed to old content, which is not publicity for > >these titles. Why make that particular change in the first place? > > > >3. When are these problems with some of the Ingenta Select servers not > >being in synch going to be resolved? For those of us checking titles, > >how can we be sure we are seeing the latest content? > > > >4. How are we to be kept up to date with these subtle changes? How long > >does a redirect stay in place? > > > >Finally what is the correct URL for these titles: > > > >IRGEE should be > >http://mustafa.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm > > > >Journal of Sustainable Tourism should be > >http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/09669582/contp1.htm > > > >I hope this all makes sense and apologies if it is a little > >long-winded. > > > >Cheers > >Lesley > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Lesley Crawshaw, Faculty Information Consultant, > >Learning and Information Services, > >University of Hertfordshire, Hatfield, AL10 9AB UK > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >e-mail: [log in to unmask] > >phone: 01707 284662 fax: 01707 284666 > >web: http://www.herts.ac.uk/lis/subjects/natsci/ejournal/ > >list owner: [log in to unmask] > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > -- > > Eric Hellman, President Openly Informatics, > Inc. > [log in to unmask] 2 Broad St., 2nd > Floor > tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 > http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything >