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Hear, hear! Peter King On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:20:29 +0100 Louise Cole <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi Lesley > > In my experience, we have had to chase a lot of content on ingenta each year > to get it set up when we are entitled to it. When we have spotted a title > with current year content missing they have been able to sort it out - but, > why should we have to spend the time doing this when we are getting print > copies, or have access through another route, and it is obvious we are also > entitled to ingenta content? > > Louise > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lesley Crawshaw [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: 07 October 2003 17:01 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Problems with accessing an OUP journal, Parliamentary > Affairs through ingenta > > > Hi, > > We now have our access restored to Parliamentary Affairs through > ingenta. The problem appears to be due to the subscription files from > OUP not containing 2002 and 2003 subscription information for that > title. Although it might have seemed a minor irriration to have not had > complete access to that title, my question is how many other of our > subscriptions are in that category? Should we have to annually validate > our subscription information on ingenta to make sure that the latest > subscription data they receive from publishers is accurate? > > Time and time again the subscription data from publishers doesn't seem > to be of sufficient quality or in the correct format for our > subscriptions to be set up on ingenta accurately. If that information > was correct we shouldn't have to be doing all this work making sure our > subscriptions are active from year to year. If a publisher takes over a > new journal one should expect that the subscription data going to > ingenta should automatically give us access to that journal. > > True ingenta/ingenta select provide the means for us to set up our > access to titles, but surely that is an extra precaution, we really > shouldn't be having to do all this work if the data publishers were > sending to ingenta was accurate in the first place, but then we all know > it isn't!! If you've ever asked to see a list of your subscriptions from > a publisher, you will find that in certain cases they are a long way > away from being accurate. Spelling mistakes and other "noise" on > publishers databases can lead to your subscriptions being scattered all > over the place. It can take a long time to get this information > accurate. > > I am using Sage as an example here because it's one I spent a lot of > time sorting out recently, I have had the same experience below with > many other publishers. > > I recently asked for a list of our subscriptions from Sage. This enabled > me to identify several titles which were either new subscriptions of > ours or which Sage had recently taken over from other publishers. I then > checked our access to these titles on ingenta and found that we had > access to hardly any of these titles. After a lot of liaison between > myself and Sage, and myself and ingenta we finally have got our access > sorted to all our subscribed titles, but for how long, will I need to do > this every year? > > This suggests that the data being sent to ingenta does not enable > accurate matching up of institutions and their subscriptions, which is > why we all have to spend so much time papering over the cracks. > > Is it not about time that this problem was got to grips with? > > Cheers > Lesley > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Lesley Crawshaw, Faculty Information Consultant, > Learning and Information Services, > University of Hertfordshire, Hatfield, AL10 9AB UK > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > e-mail: [log in to unmask] > phone: 01707 284662 fax: 01707 284666 > web: http://www.herts.ac.uk/lis/subjects/natsci/ejournal/ > list owner: [log in to unmask] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -----Original Message----- > From: An informal open list set up by the UK Serials Group > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Terry Bucknell > Sent: 07 October 2003 10:02 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Problems with accessing an OUP journal, Parliamentary > Affairs through ingenta > > > Mieko et al, > > My understanding of Lesley's first query is that OUP journal contents is > loaded onto Ingenta(Select)'s servers, not just referred through to > OUP's servers (i.e. different to the situation with ScienceDirect) so > you separately need to activate access at Ingenta(Select), as well as at > the OUP site. > > If our subscriptions to any publisher's journals entitle us to online > access at more than one host, then I think that we should try to > activate access at all of them. > > Say we only chose to activate access to OUP's journals at OUP's sites, > and linked to those from our catalogue. What about users who find a > paper in one of our subscribed OUP journals at Ingenta(Select) by > searching Ingenta(Select), Google, or a bibliographic database? > > What we could do with is automatic communication between publishers and > hosts, so that when you set up access at one site, access is enabled at > all sites to which your subscription entitles you - an OpenActivate > protocol! We try to activate access at all available sites, but usually > only link to one from our catalogue to make the collation of usage stats > easier. But I dare say there are many journals where we have overlooked > activating access at all sites - until one of our users uncovers a > problem at our 'chosen' site. > > > Terry Bucknell > Electronic Resources Manager > Harold Cohen Library > University of Liverpool > PO Box 123 Liverpool L69 3DA > > Tel: +44 (0)151 794 5408 Fax: +44 (0)151 794 5417 > Email: [log in to unmask] > > --On 06 October 2003 17:29 +0100 Mieko Yamaguchi > <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > Under "Full text access", "Information for libraries" on the BIDS web > > site, I found the following. > > > > "Several BIDS bibliographic databases (IBSS, RSC), are linked to > > ingentaJournals." > > > > So the next question is can you access the OUP journal article in > > question via the ingentajouranls site? > > > > I tried a couple of links from IBSS to OUP journal articles and was > > able to view PDF files. The journals I tried were Parliamentary > > Affairs and European Sociological Reviews. > > > > I don't think it's a matter of paying for the same title twice, but > > I'm not sure why we need to arrange that titles from publishers such > > as OUP and ScienceDirect are also accessible from ingenta when they > > can be accessed directly. > > > > We have always preferred to provide direct links to the publishers' > > site for electronic journals. "Closed" full text links such as IBSS > > to ingentajournals are often problematic as we don't know what's going > > > on behind the scene. > > > > Ingentajournals is OpenURL compliant, so if you have a link resolver > > you should be able to link to articles from A&I databases. In order > > for linking to work the origin (in this case IBSS) must also be > > OpenURL c ompliant. As far as I can tell BIDS IBSS is not. > > > > If we are prepared to pay to access IBSS via CSA (which is OpenURL > > compliant) we can probably link from IBSS to ingentajournals without > > having to depend on BIDS's own linking mechanism and authentication, > > but I have digressed from your original question! > > > > Mieko > > > > On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Lesley Crawshaw wrote: > > > >> One of the students was doing a search on IBSS (International > >> Bibliography of the Social Sciences) on BIDS, which provides some > >> links to full text journals. She had found a good reference to an > >> article in Parliamentary Affairs, an OUP title, but when we tried to > >> access the full text she was told by ingenta that "we were not > >> recognised as a subscriber of this journal, but could pay to view the > > >> full text. > >> > >> Now, not only do we have a subscription to this journal, we also have > > >> a deal for 2003 to access almost all of OUP journals. So why are we > >> being refused access? We can access the full text of this article > >> through the Highwire site where this title is located, but we can't > >> access the full text of this title on ingenta. I thought that with > >> OUP titles on ingenta that the authentication for access was carried > >> out at the OUP site, as is the case with titles on ScienceDirect, so > >> why are we being refused access? Should we really be expected to pay > > >> twice for what we have already paid for? > > > > -- > > Mieko Yamaguchi | Email: [log in to unmask] > > Tech Services Manager/System Coordinator | Phone: +44 (0)1248 382970 > > University of Wales Bangor | Fax: +44 (0)1248 382979 > ***************** Dr Peter King Assistant Director (Information Management) University of Bristol Information Services Tyndall Avenue, Bristol BS8 1TJ, United Kingdom. Tel. +44 (0)117 928 8005 Fax. +44 (0)117 925 5334 Email [log in to unmask]