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I should have thought air guitar was more in your line Jonathan ! Philip Hyde Pilgrim Hospital Boston -----Original Message----- From: JG MIDDLE [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 24 December 2003 12:16 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: analytes & measurands - a Christmas quiz Anxious as I am to reply immdeiately to anyone with such an exotic email address (just a joke Ian), Google has a handy tool now which list members might like to try. Just put "define:nnnnnnn" into the box where "nnnnnnn" is your word of choice. Analyte produces about 20 definitions, not all of which are the same; measurand produces three. Some read the same for both terms. There are of course VIM definitions and you will find 'analyte' in Jim Westgard's glossary. This debate will run and run (Roger hasn't replied yet - I lost my bet!) and I will attempt to collate responses in due course. I'm off home now to the bosom of my family (something like that) and play with my new Variax 700 (not a mass spectrometer!). I'll be ack at my desk on 5th January - but will scan my emails at home. Best wishes to all Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Ian McFarlane <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:58:01 +0000 Subject: Re: analytes & measurands - a Christmas quiz As somebody else with little to do today. I also looked for both terms on the Oxford English Dictionary, neither of which are included. After watching the BBC1 programme on the making of the OED it would seem that there is an opportunity for one of the wordsmiths out there to grab their 15 microseconds of fame by supplying a definition and quotations to the OED for inclusion in the next edition. Perhaps Dr Middle would care to define his terms? Merry Xmas Ian McFarlane >From: Reynolds Tim <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Reynolds Tim <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: analytes & measurands - a Christmas quiz >Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:29:10 -0000 > >I tried 10 on-line dictionaries: > >results: >1 gave Analyte = The substance being measured in an analytical procedure. >9 gave analyte not listed > >10 gave measurand not listed. > >So clearly measurand is made up and analyte is probably made up as well. > >However, that means that: > >[1] alkaline phosphatase NOT analyte because you measure its activity > > [2] cholesterol analyte > > [3] Ca125 analyte > > [4] free T4 analyte or not depending whether you believe >the assay does what it says > > [5] HbA1c analyte or not because HbA1c is not really a >sinle entity > > [6] oestradiol analyte > > [7] Troponin I analyte > > [8] TSH analyte > > [9] SHBG analyte > > [10] sodium analyte > >*************************************************************************** ********** >Prof. Tim Reynolds, >Clinical Chemistry Department, >Queens Hospital, >Belvedere Rd., >Burton-on-Trent, >STAFFORDSHIRE, >DE13 0RB, >UK. >tel: 01283 511511 ext. 4035 >fax: 01283 593064 >email: [log in to unmask] >alternative email for the all too frequent occasions when the NHS email >connection doesn't work: >[log in to unmask] > >*************************************************************************** *********** >IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual >addressee(s)named above and may contain information that is confidential >privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, >no sense of humour or irrational religious beliefs. If you are not the >intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this >email is not authorized (either explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes >an irritating social faux pas. Unless the word absquatulation has been used >in its correct context somewhere other than in this warning, it does not >have any legal or grammatical use and may be ignored. No animals were >harmed in the transmission of this email, though the kelpie next door is >living on borrowed time, let me tell you. Those of you with an overwhelming >fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn there is no hidden message >revealed by reading this backwards, so just ignore that Alert Notice from >Macroshaft. However, by pouring a complete circle of salt around yourself >and your computer you can ensure that no harm befalls you and your pets. If >you have received this eMail in error, please add some nutmeg and egg >whites, whisk, and place in a warm oven for 40 minutes. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Clinical biochemistry discussion list > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of JG MIDDLE > > Sent: 24 December 2003 10:01 > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: analytes & measurands - a Christmas quiz > > > > > > Hi chaps > > > > Some recent postings and discussions with a training course > > class this year, have prompted me to pose some Christmas > > questions. I have a small side bet on who will respond first! > > > > My purpose is to stimulate debate about the words we use to > > describe the 'things' we 'measure' and whether we share a > > common understanding of them. I am not an expert, I may not > > be phrasing the questions in the right way, and I don't know > > what the right answers are, but the reponses might be interesting! > > > > The following is a list of some common 'tests' in most labs' > > repertoire (assume all are serum/plasma/whole blood as appropriate). > > > > [1] alkaline phosphatase > > [2] cholesterol > > [3] Ca125 > > [4] free T4 > > [5] HbA1c > > [6] oestradiol > > [7] Troponin I > > [8] TSH > > [9] SHBG > > [10] sodium > > > > In each case, can they be described as 'analytes' or 'measurands'? > > > > Is this is a silly question because the terms are equivalent, > > or is it a highly pertinent one as they have different > > meanings, or does this only matter to the 'anoraks'? > > > > And how does our understanding of what is being 'tested for' > > or 'measured' depend on the method of analysis and the > > 'signal-producing entity' within it? > > > > Happy Christmas! > > > > Jonathan Middle > > > > > > > > UK NEQAS Birmingham > > tel 0121 414 7300, fax 0121 414 1179 > > This message is intended only for the above named > > recipient(s). Message content may be confidential and > > privileged. If it comes to you in error please inform the > > sender and delete it from your system. > > The opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily > > represent those of UK NEQAS Birmingham, the UK NEQAS > > Organisation, the University Hospital Birmingham NHS Trust or > > University of Birmingham. > > > > ------ACB discussion List Information-------- > > This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical > > community working in clinical biochemistry. > > Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed > > via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and > > they are responsible for all message content. > > > > ACB Web Site > > http://www.acb.org.uk > > List Archives > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html > > List Instructions (How to leave etc.) > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical community working in clinical biochemistry. Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and they are responsible for all message content. ACB Web Site http://www.acb.org.uk List Archives http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html List Instructions (How to leave etc.) http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ UK NEQAS Birmingham tel 0121 414 7300, fax 0121 414 1179 This message is intended only for the above named recipient(s). Message content may be confidential and privileged. If it comes to you in error please inform the sender and delete it from your system. The opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily represent those of UK NEQAS Birmingham, the UK NEQAS Organisation, the University Hospital Birmingham NHS Trust or University of Birmingham. ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical community working in clinical biochemistry. Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and they are responsible for all message content. ACB Web Site http://www.acb.org.uk List Archives http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html List Instructions (How to leave etc.) http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical community working in clinical biochemistry. Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and they are responsible for all message content. ACB Web Site http://www.acb.org.uk List Archives http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html List Instructions (How to leave etc.) http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/