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I think the whole business of payment by the hour is encouraging mediocrity. Do the job quickly and efficiently - earn less! Why don't cash strapped businesses like this, just offer £1600 for the job? They might get an experienced GIS pro who'll do a good job in 10 days (maybe split over two months and combined with a couple of similar jobs) and everybody's happy! Just a thought. >From: Richard Pope <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Richard Pope <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:27:51 +0100 > >It would also help if there was an effective professional association to >argue on the behalf of us! > >-----Original Message----- >From: The free list for all gis job announcements >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andrew Bent-Marshall >Sent: 10 July 2003 10:41 >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician > > >This discussion seems to have been knocking around for some time now. Yet, >to me, the solution is quite simple. If you are happy to work for this >price, whether as a stepping stone or not, then apply for the job. If you >think the job/pay is beneath you, then don't apply for it - wait for >something else. > >The company concerned may be satisfied with the quality of work they can >get for £6 an hour, they may not. If they are satisfied then fair enough, >why should they pay more when they don't have to? If they are not >satisfied with the quality of work they will realise pretty quickly that >they need to offer more in order to get the people/quality they require. > >By the way, as a general "Environmental Management" post-graduate with a >few GIS modules under my belt I did six months as a poorly paid GIS temp. >Without it however, I would not have got my first full time GIS job, which, >in turn, would not have lead to my move into Contaminated Land work...for >which I am now an acting Principal Officer (having more than doubled my >salary in 3 years). We've all got to start somewhere so I wouldn't knock >that first 'foot-in-the-door' opportunity too much. > >Andy > >-----Original Message----- >From: Laine Skinner [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: 10 July 2003 10:09 >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician > > >Although I tend to agree with your general view, this is in the context of >a position advertised at £6 per hour. This is a skilled job requiring >someone with 6 months experience. I believe many skilled graduates (in any >geo- related discipline) will see this salary as a joke. Someone without a >degree, straight from A-levels with some experience in GIS related fields >would also see this as an underpaid job. Perhaps not to the same extent as >a skilled grad., but along the same lines. > >More importantly, if I outsourced this work for my company, I would be >particularly worried about the 'quality' of the work which may be completed >by offering a post at this level. As you point out, this is probably a >critical stage of the process and fundamental to the overall quality and >success of the GIS. > >I agree that any candidate for this position would only be looking to use >this post as a quick stepping stone - which is not the sort of attitude for >ANY job - if you are looking for quality in the final product. > >I do not think the question concerning whether or not this job and salary >is 'beneath' anyone - it is what sort of quality can the employer expect by >offering this type of wage. Maybe they will be lucky this time round and >get a good person in, but as a general business practise to offer such a >low wage? At some point quality will suffer. > > >Laine > > > >On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 09:31, Mr O. J. Tomlinson wrote: > > Anthony > > Not all people who want to work in GIS are GIS graduates. Some have > > degree's in Geo related areas (with perhaps a couple of modules of GIS > > and a project under their belts) and would see the post advertised as > > one which did not make to many demands in terms of specific GIS > > requirements, but offered a way into the GIS industry for those with > > some experience. The salary may not be great and may not appeal to > > those who clearly see such a job and salary as beneath them, but many > > good graduates will see it as an opportunity and a quick stepping > > stone to better things - which these days is the major route of career > > progression. You may also wish to remind yourself (as someone based in > > academia) that you are given a great deal of freedom and support to > > develop your skills and expertise at little or no cost, which is a > > luxury many employers or individuals can no longer easily afford. I do > > agree however that the GIS industry faces the paradox that what are > > often the most critical jobs on which quality is based are usually the > > worst paid in the industry. > > > > Oliver Tomlinson > > Senior Lecturer in GIS and Remote Sensing (formerly an untrained > > monkey) University of Derby > > > > To unsubscribe or modify your gis-jobs settings, please visit: > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/gis-jobs >-- >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >Dr Laine Skinner > >Department of Geography, Yr Adran Ddaearyddiaeth, >University of Wales: Swansea, Prifysgol Cymru: Abertawe, >Singleton Park, Parc Singleton, >Swansea, SA2 8PP, UK. Abertawe, SA2 8PP, Cymru, UK. > >Tel/Ffon: +44 (0)1792 513163 >Fax/Ffacs: +44 (0)1792 295955 >http://www.swan.ac.uk/geog/ > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >To unsubscribe or modify your gis-jobs settings, please visit: >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/gis-jobs > >_____________________________________________________________________ >This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet >delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre > >_____________________________________________________________________ >Hounslow Council routinely monitors the content of e-mails sent and >received via its network for the purposes of ensuring compliance with its >policies and procedures. > >The contents of this message are for the attention and use of the intended >addressee only. 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