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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture turns out that my local f.a. lieberry is closed until the third year of the third millennium, so i'll not be checking Lindy Grant on Suger's family for a while. there is a new edition of S's works : +AVI-uvres / Suger ; texte +AOk-tabli, traduit et comment+AOk par Fran+AOc-oise Gasparri. Published: Paris : Belles Lettres, 1996- Description: v : ill, maps ; 20 cm. Incomplete contents: t. 1 Ecrit sur la cons+AOk-cration de Saint-Denis ; L'+AVM-uvre administrative ; Histoire de Louis VII -- t. 2. Lettres de Suger ; Chartes de Suger ; Vie de Suger par le moine Guillaume. in her introduction to the first volume, Madame Gasparri fudges the issue of his origins quite nicely, i thought : "N+AOk vers 1081 d'une famille de petite extraction, paysans ou petits chevaliers possessionn+AOk dans la r+AOk-gion de Saint-Denis ou d'Argenteuil..." citing (n.1) "Sur l'origine de la famille de Suger, cf. J. Benton, "Suger's Life and Personality" dans _Abbot Suger and St.-Denis, A Symposium, pp. 2-15, qui suggere un lein avec la famille de Garland." i've not read Benton, and he's locked up in the FAL for the duration. "un lien avec la famille de Garlande" certainly suggests lesser "nobility" (all i mean by that term is small castelains or knights), the Garlandes being, of course, the most powerful family in the king's entourage/household from the 1090s till 1127 or so. however, i certainly don't recall S. being particularly kind in his treatment of any of them in his life of Fat Louis --on the contrary, in fact. though this may reflect the situation well into the 12th century rather than at the time of Suger's youth. G. doesn't mention a "brother" Bishop of Arras, but does note that S. had a nephew who was a canon of the cathedral of Paris. The lattter surely owed his stall to the influence of his powerful uncle, but, even so, the fact that he was admitted into the cathedral chapter is suggestive of non-"peasant" origins of the family, i would suspect. isn't there a letter of Ivo of chartres concerning whether or not such a fellow could serve in a cathedral chapter? just doesn't make sense, to me, that a true "peasant" could have gotten a grip on the first rung of the Ladder of Sucess, much less risen to such heights, for a number of convering reasons. best from here, c ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html