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I haven't read the Israeli study, as everyone knows, however, what you are talking about, Richard, is more along the lines of what we would like to read. Referring to an earlier post of mine, we ought intuitively to be able to say that when students are exposed to IT/ICT and allowed to assimilate it into their learning culture, we ought to see advances in their responses. The Cardiff study I menionted said these payoffs didn't exist: I found they do in the context of both of my own examples cited here and you are saying the same. Let me repeat: when these studies ask the wrong questions, they are bound to get the wrong answers. From what has been said here and from what people are clearly thinking, we need to take a much broader view than, eg, do students who learn accounting via spreadsheeting fare better than students who don't? I see from a Geography GCSE syllabus that their requirements for course work are drafted very broadly; and I think that is appropriate otherwise Richard's students would have their enthusiasm, and much deeper knowledge and skills, squashed. Duncan Williamson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Young" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: Re: IT in schools Oh dear... do I sense a few tired old hobby horses being giving an outing; a culture resistant to change? Here are my lunchtime musings: I must declare an interest - I teach ICT and Economics and Biz Studies. Give me a Porche car and I will drive very fast. Give me a class full of pcs and an interactive whiteboard and the teaching and learning experience will be similar to an exhilarating drive on a sunny day with Michael Schumacher - make that Damon Hill :-) An interactive white board, with a fast broadband link, well used can do things beyond chalk, talk, ohp, or pc that fire the imagination. They are just expensive tools. And they are needed to stretch our clientele. The standard of some of Year 7 pupils coming up from primaries who have invested in NGfL is awesome. I have kids in year 8 with a good understanding of purpose and audience who know how to blend text images and sound to communicate ideas and concepts in a bold and imaginative way to commercial standard. Three years ago some Year 7s burst into tears when asked to move a mouse. Now I have THREE year 7s asking if they create Excel macros for user menus. Progress or play? We have four pc rooms full every lunchtime with students doing serious pc work - no games. We have kids staying on after school 3 nights a week to develop their skills and expertise. Are interactive white boards worth £3,000? Well once textbooks are in place and the roof has been repaired then diminishing returns set in. We a bog standard comp have three bookable whiteboard rooms and are looking to bring in more - cet par. Oh and we are looking to cover our outdoor swimming pool and get an astro turf pitch. What is wrong with trying to improve the infrastructure. Why should kids be denied opportunities considered bog standard in most private schools? Regards Richard Young AST Teacher of Business Studies, Economics & ICT Deputy Head of VI Form - Year 12 Wood Green School Woodstock Road Witney OX28 1DX Tel 01993 702355 Fax 01993 774961 www.woodgreen.oxon.sch.uk BECTa/Guardian Secondary School Web Site of the Year 2001 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Economics, business, and related subjects [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jenny Wales Sent: 04 November 2002 08:44 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: IT in schools Hi Sounds like people need something more than NOF training. I'm not sure that we really have the existing resources under control but when used effectively students seem to respond well and the gains seem obvious. I still remember using one of the ancient Computers in the Curriculum products on marginal utility - Steve Hurd will remember it well. One girl who had failed to grasp the concept, despite the most careful explanation, sat in front of the computer and suddenly let out a shriek of delight - the penny had dropped! People learn in different ways so we need to work out how to take this into account. As new technology continues to hit classrooms, everyone continues to need help to work out how to teach with it most effectively. Interactive whiteboards, for example, are starting to become quite common so there is a need for subject specific ideas about how to use them to help students to learn. Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.bowett" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:01 PM Subject: Re: IT in schools > There is no doubt that IT can be a massive waste of time and money. It can > also be, as the research suggests, an actual barrier to learning. As I see > it, one of the main problems is that of INSET. When a school proudly > unveils its latest hardware or software acquisition, staff are given INSET > on how to operate the new system. Very rarely is the question raised as to > how the new system, however expertly operated, actually contributes to > learning, and therefore how it should be used as a teaching tool. > > This is a subtle and difficult question. There is one range of issues as to > which kinds of topics/lessons a particular piece of apparatus or an > application is best suited. As Duncan points out, there is a range of > business topics which seem well handled by spread-sheets. > > But there is a further range of issues which is even more rarely discussed. > Information, and therefore learning is mediated by the means of > communication. We all use language a lot, and are therefore familiar with > the ways in which language mediates the learning in question. For example, > students with weak language skills find that so much of their cognitive > processing is given over to the task of decoding the language that there is > very little left for learning the lesson in question. Similarly, IT > mediates the information in different ways that I for one don't fully > understand, and I would only claim to be a step ahead insofar as I am aware > that there is a question in need of an answer. The affective is prior to > the cognitive, and we are all aware how the feelings about IT experienced > by the technophobic student can form a barrier to learning. But that is > only one of a possible range of affective responses to the use of IT. But > what the cognitive consequences are is a further question. For example, for > all that many web-pages look like book pages, the web 'packages' information > in very different ways to books and libraries. How does this affect > learning? Does it make it easier, or more difficult, or just different? If > so, what are the differences, and how are they best catered for? > > I welcome any thoughts on this matter. > > Richard Bowett > >