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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >From: Theresa Gross-Diaz <[log in to unmask]> >Fascinating... but "being commemorated" isn't at all the same as "being >invoked", as you recognize. I don't think one can "leave aside" a >question that is at the very core of western medieval Catholic practice >regarding saints. Their intercession is the whole point... a detail that >becomes the more apparent as one enjoys Phyllis' postings. Saints' lives >are not always that imitable, nor even always terrifically illuminating >(they can be erratic, destabilizing, dangerous!). I think "imitability" is a fairly recent development in terms of what makes a saint a saint. As a child, I was often exposed to the notion of the "Church Militant" meaning people on earth. Saints were the heroes, the Church Triumphant, the ones who, like the superheroes in myths, tales, or cartoons demonstrate certain qualities in exaggerated form or quantity. When I was doing my MA thesis on images of sanctity in the commentaries on the Fe/lire O/enugusso Ce/lie De/, that was what struck me about the saints: they were superheroes to be admired but not to be imitated per se. Recently I was rereading some of those stories (as excerpted in John Carey's collection, _King of Mysteries_) and found one where the characters in the story are trying to account for why the "saints" of an earlier era were able to exist for scores of years on such little food (at least according to their tales) and they finally conclude that the saints of that era were just different, and that such "heights" were no longer attainable. That seems like an outright admission that imitability isn't possible, but admiration, even adulation, is. On the other hand, at least in early Irish stories, there seems to be a direct correlation between extremes of asceticism and the ability to work miracles. So, in that sense, intercession lies very much at the heart of the saintly image. Francine Nicholson _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html