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Hi John you old Bastard!! :-) and hello to all you other .....folk Which as you pointed out is neither a comment on your age or your parents' marital status at the time of your conception (or is it birth?) Context is important as you say. However, it is the level of abstraction known by some to be "metacommunicative" that the context is both sourced and received. There must be an awareness by all parties that a specific context (or frame) has been constructed within which, there is a shared understanding of how the content of the frame should be read. Even where this metacommunicated shared understanding (interpretation) is adopted, the frame remains very fragile. This is Gregory Bateson's theory anyway. The "play frame" is a perfect example where the metacommunicated message is: "these actions in which we now engage, do not denote what would be denoted by those actions which these actions denote". Calling somebody an old bastard does not denote aggression or contempt which is what the the action would normally denote. Rather, the action denotes something quite the opposite - friendliness. This is called the "paradox of play". We could go on with this banter....until!!..One of us says something that hits a nerve. With this the fragile play frame is destroyed. Same as two kids having a wrestle out in the yard - the pushing and hitting does not denote aggression....until!!!...one of the hits lands too hard - play frame breaks - child takes bat and ball and goes home crying. I find that it is this metacommunicated message regarding context that makes email communication prone to volatility. As you say, tone and other non-verbals to a large extent, govern the way in which we should be read. Almost impossible to do when using email. Yet, it is our ability to do this that allowed language to evolve in the first place. Have I digressed too far? | Good afternoon all, | | It seems to me that this discussion is only two dimentional. About the | literal and/or philosophical meaning of certain terminoligy. It think we are | missing the third dimention, the one of context and 'tone'. | | The French express this wonderfully well when they say: "C'est le ton qui | fait la musique". In Oz we are not as suptle, but understand exactly what | the French mean. the word 'bastard' is used with many meanings all dependent | on context and flavour. It can be a term of endearment: "you lucky bastard" | or contemptuous: "what a bastard you are' and many other things to boot. | | have a good time, rgds John | (in sunny and windy Yeppoon) | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: Lillie,Timothy H <[log in to unmask]> | To: <[log in to unmask]> | Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:49 PM | Subject: Re: 2003 logo | | | > All right. I confess that I see little distinction between the two, from | a pragmatic (day-to-day) perspective. The issue for me is not what word is | used for shorthand purposes but what happens in the lives of people. | However, I simply wanted to point out that someone who is not in the field, | but wishes to be respectful of individuals with disabilities (or disabled | individuals, if you will) is in a Catch-22 situation. They are bound to | offend someone, somewhere. Those still believing in person-first language | (arguably due to the effects of the social model) are offended by "disabled | people" which seems to some to locate the disability within the individual | rather than as a social construction. | > | > And vice-versa. | > | > Timothy Lillie, PhD | > Dept. of Curricular & Instructional Studies | > The University of Akron | > Akron OH 44325-4205 | > | > > -----Original Message----- | > > From: Lissner, Scott L [mailto:[log in to unmask]] | > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 3:50 PM | > > To: [log in to unmask] | > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo | > > | > > | > > The difference in language is part of a dimension that | > > reflect group identity development. The historically | > > majority used "disabled person" in a sometimes subtle often | > > overt denigrating or overt fashion. Person with language | > > evolved to address that tone and many advocates have adopted | > > the once pejorative terms as their own "The Disabled" This | > > happened with race in the US during the 50's and 60's. It | > > is akin to big D little d Deaf. in the Context of Deaf | > > Culture it is a capitol D in the context of impairment it is | > > a lower case d. | > > | > > L. Scott Lissner | > > ADA Coordinator, Academic Affairs | > > 2054 Drake | > > 1849 Cannon Drive | > > Columbus, Ohio 43210-1266 | > > | > > (614) 292-6207 (v); (614) 688-8605 (tty); (614) 688-3665 | > > (Fax) | > > | > > [log in to unmask] | > > | > > | > > -----Original Message----- | > > From: Lillie,Timothy H [mailto:[log in to unmask]] | > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 3:13 PM | > > To: [log in to unmask] | > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo | > > | > > | > > It's curious. I teach special education and disability | > > studies in the US and am often asked by students and others | > > who want to be sensitive to these issues: "What is the | > > correct form of address? Is it 'disabled person' or is it | > > 'person with a disability'?" | > > | > > I tell them: "Yes." | > > | > > TL | > > | > > Timothy Lillie, PhD | > > Dept. of Curricular & Instructional Studies | > > The University of Akron | > > Akron OH 44325-4205 | > > | > > > -----Original Message----- | > > > From: Claire Wickham | > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] | > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:55 PM | > > > To: [log in to unmask] | > > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo | > > > | > > > | > > > Because the word "disabled" is being reclaimed and is an | > > > affirmation of | > > > pride. | > > > | > > > Because I am not a person carrying around my "disability" | > > as an | > > > afterthought. | > > > | > > > Because disabled people are disadvantaged by society's | > > > attitudes, prejudices | > > > and procedures and "disabled person" is thus akin to | > > oppressed person, | > > > disadvataged person....we do not say "person with | > > > oppression", "person with | > > > disadvatge", "person with blackness". | > > > | > > > Becasue "person with a disability" suggests that the locus | > > of | > > > responsibility | > > > is the individual, when it is society that creates the | > > disadvantage. | > > > | > > > Because "people with disabilities" suggests that we are | > > divided by our | > > > different impairments and "disabled people" units us. | > > > | > > > Claire | > > > | > > > -----Original Message----- | > > > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List | > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of | > > Peter Bailey | > > > Sent: 17 July 2002 19:38 | > > > To: [log in to unmask] | > > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo | > > > | > > > | > > > Dear Mary | > > > Great question - I am keen to hear the answers, but just | > > to | > > > be clear I agree | > > > with the language of 'disabled person', all to do with the | > > | > > > social model of | > > > disability. | > > > | > > > Best wishes | > > > Peter Bailey | > > > 01372 275147 (T&F) | > > > 07803 182656 (M) | > > > 70 Chaffers Mead | > > > Ashtead | > > > Surrey KT21 1NH | > > > ----- Original Message ----- | > > > From: Mary Ennis | > > > To: [log in to unmask] | > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 3:39 PM | > > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo | > > > | > > > | > > > Hi Mark, | > > > | > > > Here in Canada, the consumer movement has worked long | > > and | > > > hard to change | > > > the | > > > language, to put the individual first and foremost | > > instead | > > > of following a | > > > label. I'm really curious as to the reasoning behind | > > your | > > > request for a | > > > name | > > > change to the European Year? | > > > | > > > Mary | > > > | > > > ----- Original Message ----- | > > > From: "Mark Priestley" <[log in to unmask]> | > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> | > > > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 1:05 PM | > > > Subject: 2003 logo | > > > | > > > | > > > > Hi | > > > > | > > > > Just to let you know that I managed to persuade the | > > > people at European | > > > Year | > > > > of 'People with Disabilities' to produce an | > > alternative | > > > UK friendly logo | > > > > titled 'European Year of Disabled People'. | > > > > | > > > > They haven't put it on their web site yet, but they | > > sent | > > > me one when I | > > > asked | > > > > for it. | > > > > | > > > > EYPD Team | > > > > EurO&M | > > > > 22 rue de la Putterie | > > > > B - 1000 Brussels | > > > > mailto:[log in to unmask] | > > > > | > > > > http://www.eypd2003.org/eypd/eypd/logo/logo_2.html | > > > > | > > > > Best Wishes | > > > > | > > > > Mark Priestley | > > > > Centre for Disability Studies | > > > > University of Leeds | > > > > LEEDS | > > > > LS2 9JT | > > > > UK | > > > > | > > > > tel: +44 113 343 4417 | > > > > fax: +44 113 343 4415 | > > > > e-mail: [log in to unmask] | > > > > http://www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies | > > > > | > > > > ________________End of message______________________ | > > > > | > > > > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research | > > Discussion List | > > > > are now located at: | > > > > | > > > > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | > > > > | > > > > You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. | > > > > | > > > | > > > ________________End of message______________________ | > > > | > > > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research | > > Discussion List | > > > are now located at: | > > > | > > > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | > > > | > > > You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. | > > > | > > > | > > > ________________End of message______________________ | > > > | > > > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion | > > List | > > > are now located at: | > > > | > > > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | > > > | > > > You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. | > > > | > > > ________________End of message______________________ | > > > | > > > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion | > > List | > > > are now located at: | > > > | > > > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | > > > | > > > You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. | > > > | > > | > > ________________End of message______________________ | > > | > > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion | > > List | > > are now located at: | > > | > > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | > > | > > You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. | > > | > > ________________End of message______________________ | > > | > > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List | > > are now located at: | > > | > > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | > > | > > You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. | > > | > | > ________________End of message______________________ | > | > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List | > are now located at: | > | > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | > | > You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. | > | | ________________End of message______________________ | | Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List | are now located at: | | www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html | | You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page. ________________End of message______________________ Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List are now located at: www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page.