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Here's a long answer to a short question. What strikes me as odd is that Musidorus would leave off the "secreter" arguments in the first place. Aren't M & P close friends? Surely Jon is right to suggest that M is trying to maintain some kind of philosophical decorum here. It seems that M thinks the princes' wanderings are in fact the kind of grand tour Sidney took in 1572. If you look at the narrator's description of how Musidorus came to want to leave Arcadia (toward the top of p. 12 in the Oxford Classics paperback) and the end of M's speech to P, you'll see reiterated the sort of advice that one gives to a young aristocrat embarking on such a grand tour. That advice is generally to size up the political situation, observe the lay of th land & other potentially militarily useful items, and make good diplomatic contacts. Philip wrote a letter containing just this advice to his younger brother Robert in 1580 (about teh same time he was finishing up the Old Arcadia), and you'll probably find that letter in Feullierat (it's likely also in Kimbrough's Holt Rinehart edition of Sidney, and in the standard edition of Sidney's miscellaneous prose); other aristocrats wrote similar letters of advice to young travellers, too. I think Sidney is having a little fun at Musidorus' expense. Musidorus wants Pyrocles to become more self-aware, but as Jon points out, M is lacking in self-awareness himself. No doubt Sidney is poking fun at the self-importance of a "genre" dedicated at least as much to showing off the wisdom of its alleged authors as to imparting good advice to travellers. And when you look at the direction of the set-piece as a whole, you see Pyrocles essentially advancing the thesis that the princes occupy a romance, not a travel narrative. Moreover, Pyrocles wins his dispute with Musidorus by bursting into tears and provoking his erstwhile philosophic friend's pity. So, what does Musidorus know, and when? I'd hazard that he does recognize the stirrings of love in Pyrocles, and that his desire to keep things at the level of philosophical travel advice prompts him to "leave off other secreter arguments" entirely. What Musidorus *doesn't* seem to know is that he and Pyrocles inhabit a romance, not a travel narrative. That's the basis for what I take to be a pretty complicated dramatic irony, which Marie's astute question opens up for us. >From: [log in to unmask] >Reply-To: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: what does Musidorus know - and when? >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 06:44:42 +0000 > >I believe the passage cited offers a fine instance of >Sidney's craft in a narrative that teases and thereby >entertains the reader, at the same time showing >Musidorus to be somewhat self-deceived, setting himself >up for a fall when he himself slackens his pace in his >noble course. As I take it, he's making a big deal out >of setting aside anything 'personal' that might make his >advice to Pyrocles sound like special pleading; he's >committed to the objectivity and universality that is >supposed to characterize a philosopher's argument, and >maybe he's also hinting that P. had better look to his >reputation, others may be noting his decline and >wondering about his true character, etc. > >As for scholarship, others may suggest the best recent >scholarship; I recommend that you not omit Neal >Rudenstine's book. > >Cheers, Jon Quitslund Joel B. Davis Visiting Assistant Professor Department of English 205 Morrill Hall Oklahoma State University Stillwater, OK 74078 405-744-9474 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx