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Mel wrote: In my original paradox, I suggested that anyone who doubts that it is impossible or virtually impossible for psoas to play a significant role in the early stages of sitting up to try to begin the sit-up (with unrestrained feet) with head and shoulders touching the floor and forcing these parts of the body to leave the floor LAST, not first during the exercise - i.e. by eliminating all trunk flexion caused by early abdominal action and allowing the hip flexors to raise the trunk from the floor from start to finish of the movement. Did you actually try this unkind practical exercise before commenting on this paradox? You might find it very revealing and very humbling. Mel: I would agree that it is nearly impossible to do this with out using psoas. I have a question. Florence Kendall tests abdominal strength by just this same motion but in an eccentric fashion and looks for the psoas to kick when the pelvis rotates. My question is do you feel that this eccentric strengthening of abdominals is effective for abdominal strengthening rather than traditional situps? If not, what are the ways you strengthen the deconditioned person with low back pain? Your thoughts and comments are appreciated. Patrick Zerr www.apluspt.com The easiest way to prepare for the National PT Exam! www.summitpt.com Summit Physical Therapy; Tempe, Arizona