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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Whitehead John <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >May I revive this discussion with two examples from eleventh-twelfth century Yorkshire? happy to have them, John. if we get enough anecdotal, unsystematic evidence together, who knows how scientific we could get? >At Pontefract there was outside, but adjacent to, the castle a hospital dedicated to St Nicholas. - the hospital itself was founded around an older chapel dedicated to St Helen. >...in Scarborough...there is a St Nicholas Street, which I think was linked to a hospital the association of Nicholas with hospitals rings some kind of bell, but i can barely hear it --not Chartrain, as far as i know (though i only know two early hospitals --not counting Lepresaria, of course-- the one in Chartres itself, which is always simply referred to as the "Hotel-Dieu," and was under the direct control of the cathedral chaper) and that of Chateaudun, which was a collegial under the patronage of Mary Magdelene). >The castle at Tickhill had a chapel inside its walls which was... also decicated to St Nicholas. There are some remains of it incorporated in the house that stands within the castle ruins; ---------------- <excursis one of the problems i always have had with sorting out the location of chapels mentioned in early charters is that they are usually styled "in castrum X" or somesuchlike, without specifying *where* within the "castrum" they might have been. at the king's _catrum_ on a hill overlooking his faithful town of Etampes, there was a largish chapel built between the inner and outer walls of the complex: http://www.chateau-royal.com/images/histoire05.jpg from this interesting site: http://www.chateau-royal.com/ (it was dedicated to St. Lawrence --but then Louis VI might not have felt much need to follow a Norman example in assigning patron saints to his castle chapels. the Chartrain, otOh, was *full* of all sorts of Norman influence in this period, i believe.) the location of this chapel reminds me of that which apparently existed at Auneau, not far from Chartres, which had a chapel --dedicated to St. Nicholas, of course-- documented from the very beginning of the 12th c. and said then to be _in castrum_. tediously going through the later documents, i found that this chapel of St. N. was torn down during a siege in the wars of religion, because, the later document tells us, it was built right against the wall of the chateau and could have been used by the besiegers to breach the wall. not far away --but in the town itself, not close to the surviving chateau-- there is a church (modern but said to be on the site of an old one) which *some* writers have believed to have been that of St. Nicholas, but the 16th c. document would *seem* to prevent this interpretation. the question is of interest to me because another castle town --Gallardon, just down the Voise from Auneau and belonging to the same family-- also has a chapel _in castrum_ appearing in a c.1100 charter. Gallardon has a ruin of its donjon on a hill --or spar-- overlooking the town; and a large, 12-13th c. church down in the town: http://www.ariadne.org/centrechartraine/gallardon/gallardair.jpg but modern writers have identified the existing church with that mentioned in the early charter, and i'm not sure that that was the case, at all. </excursis --------------------------------- >There are therefore at least two Yorkshire examples which appear to corroborate the Chartrain examples. well on our way. just a few thousand more, and we'll have it. >At Nottingham there is a church dedicated to St Nicholas close by the castle - so close that it was damaged in the Civil war fighting around the castle and rebuilt in the later seventeenth century. viday soupra, re Auneau. quite a lot to be found, in those later documents. unfortunately. thanks, John. christopher ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html