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fine let's leave it behind us thanks (I have btw been accused twice of anti-semitism for my criticism of Israel in the last several years) L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Candice Ward" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 25 January 2002 19:03 Subject: Re: Silence | Sorry to have been unclear in reference to the rebukes, anger, and | condescension generally directed at Josie's opinionation, Lawrence--didn't | mean to imply that your post specifically engaged in one or more of these | types of responses. On the contrary, it was admirably impersonal compared to | others, and I didn't disagree with your definitions of "devil's advocate," | etc., as commonly understood. You did seem to be posting a reprimand | directed at a single listee for herself posting views you found distasteful | from any quarter, and that's condescending on its face, I think. But you | didn't display the anger that does personalize debate and is so destructive | of it, leading to inflammatory implications of anti-Semitism, for instance. | I was increasingly dismayed over the course of the day by such increasingly | inappropriate responses to Josie's expressed (if not personally held) | opinions--dialogue on Poetryetc seems to invariably founder on just such | ill-judged responses, I think. What I _don't_ think is that your posts | participate in this list _tendence_, so apologies for the | misunderstanding--Candice | | | | on 1/25/02 7:13 AM, Lawrence Upton at [log in to unmask] | wrote: | | > | Hey, come on, Lawrence--this isn't fair. We're all of us living in glass | > | houses when it comes to prejudice, | > | > agreed | > | > and it doesn't logically follow that | > | popular opinions are any freer of prejudice than unpopular ones. | > | > didn't say that - and the popularity or otherwise of the ideas never | > occurred to me; I am used to uttering ideas which are extremely unpopular | > | > In my no | > | doubt blinkered opinion, Josie's just as entitled to the courtesies as | > | anyone arguing the other side, | > | > agreed | > | > | and rebuking her | > | > I disagreed with her terminology | > | > | or condescending to her | > | > I don't think I did; but may we not tell each other when we think they are | > wrong without being accused of condescension? Maybe that's why exam results | > are going up all over USUK | > | > (Beginning a response "sigh" is, though, quite near to condescension) | > | > or | > | > | expressing anger at her, personally, targets _her_, not the opinions to | > | which everyone's entitled to take exception. | > | > I did not express anger at the person. For that there would have had to be a | > missing element. My anger is at pernicious ideas. | > | > L |