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>From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Padraic Fallon >Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:50:17 -0000 > >Well, Paul, I'm certainly 'working class' although I don't regard that as a >badge of inverted superiority, I'd love to escape it but I don't want to be >in any other class either. I just want out of status systems all round, and >that particularly applies to poetry, where I have had some of the most >heart-breaking experiences, of people using me over and over again, your >remark about the Arts Council is most apposite there, moral: don't trust >anyone connected to it, they will exploit you, ruin your friendships, and >spit you out afterwards, I speak from experience, and pain. > >Naow, I've never been to Zurich! > > >Best > > >Dave > > > >David Bircumshaw > >Leicester, England > >Home Page > >A Chide's Alphabet > >Painting Without Numbers > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm >----- Original Message ----- >From: "paul murphy" <[log in to unmask]> >To: <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:15 AM >Subject: Re: Padraic Fallon > > >I'd love for Hofmann to say, before a reading, 'listen everyone, basically >I'm a pretentious swine, now we've got that over with, let's get on and >enjoy ourselves.' And then let off a massive fart to signify that he too >is a corporeal being, and not someone floating about in a haze of literary >references, obscure vocabulary, and okay yah PCness. I think some take it >too far the other way, and think that because they're very 'working class' >that that makes them some kind of martyr to the cause. Most of the working >class people I know would love to escape their class, and don't want to live >in a ghetto or an estate - I know, I'm one of them. Most of these flunkies >hang around, you guessed it, Arts Councils - the curse of the drinking >classes. Flann O'Brien was still a very fine writer, he might have >floundered on the Continent, Joyce certainly did, but was bailed out by his >brother and various rich people, as Sylvia Beech. For ! all that, he still >loved to eat in the best restaurants, when he couldn't, basically afford it. >It's shit, isn't it, were he alive today he could dine in the best >restaurants anywhere in the world, and much more. Perhaps he realised he >was ahead of his time, and decided to live it up before he died. Have you >been to the Fluntern cemetery in Zuerich? > > > > >From: "david.bircumshaw" > >Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and >poetics > >To: [log in to unmask] > >Subject: Re: Padraic Fallon > >Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:07:53 -0000 > > > >Hi, Paul > > > >Michael Hofman is an interesting case, as I feel his prose translations of > >German writers are very fine, yet his poems, although skilful, remind me of > >dead frogs' legs twitching on a lab table. I do agree with you about the > >benefit of the Continent to Irish writers, Flann O'Brien was possibly >undone > >by never leaving. Otherwise, with the literary scene, I am so pissed off > >with it, it is full of creeps, and when people that you regard start get > >sucked into that it brings in the clouds, everything seems wrong at present > >to me. Especially if, as in my case, you've unintentionally facilitated, a > >lovely administrative verb that, the very thing you hate. > > > >Best > > > >Dave > > > > > > > >David Bircumshaw > > > >Leicester, England > > > >Home Page > > > >A Chide's Alphabet > > > >Painting Without Numbers > > > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "paul murphy" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 11:28 PM > >Subject: Re: Padraic Fallon > > > > > >Hi, I was talking about the contrast between a writer like Michael Hofmann, > >who is all too aware of convention and literature and someone as refreshing > >as Fallon, or Kavanagh, or even Yeats, who was admittedly, much more > >cosmopolitan than the others mentioned. That's what I thought you meant? > >Ireland has either teetered backwards upon itself in a self-absorbed but > >occassionally useful parochialism, but mostly Irish writers have looked to > >the Continent, and this is when Irish writing is at its best - when the >best > >elements of the parochial mix with more sophisticated patterns -so ,we have > >Joyce, Beckett - I love their work, it goes beyond mere appreciation of > >literature, > > > >PM > > > > > > > > >From: "david.bircumshaw" > > >Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry >and > >poetics > > >To: [log in to unmask] > > >Subject: Re: Padraic Fallon > > >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:01:31 -0000 > > > > > >Paul > > > > > >your question has me totally lost - yup, living in backwaters might help >in > > >being unaware of conventions, but that wasn't what I was thinking about. >I > > >want to be angry about the way poetry is now: fraud, deceit, theft, lies > >are > > >its commonplaces, I don't want to complacently burble on about theory, I > > >want to say: THIS IS NOT RIGHT. > > > > > >Essentially, poetry, like all the other arts, like our culture in >general, > > >is corrupt, poetry is a very minor participant, coz there ain't all that > > >much money in it, but it happens, I know all too well about the users and > > >abusers that inhabit the scene, who feign and fake moral concern while > > >really looking out for themselves alone, you just try being ripped off by > > >people on the scale I have, it is not a nice experience. > > > > > > > > > > > >David Bircumshaw > > > > > >Leicester, England > > > > > >Home Page > > > > > >A Chide's Alphabet > > > > > >Painting Without Numbers > > > > > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "paul murphy" > > >To: > > >Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:34 PM > > >Subject: Re: Padraic Fallon > > > > > > > > >you mean that it was written outside the conventions of what passed for > > >literature in that period? For goodness sake, people living in backwater > > >Ireland are always going to be writing in the way you describe, simply > > >because they don't know what the conventions of literature should be, or > >are > > >probably reading writers who are at least 30 years out of date. > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "david.bircumshaw" > > > >Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry > >and > > >poetics > > > >To: [log in to unmask] > > > >Subject: Re: Padraic Fallon > > > >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:52:48 -0000 > > > > > > > >Doug > > > > > > > >I remember buying the very same out-of-date Padraic Fallon when I was > >about > > > >nineteen, I think. His poems struck me, very uneven but full of >texture, > >of > > > >charges of rhythm and sound, very unlike the boring stuff that is >mostly > > > >produced today, they took risks, but when people are writing poems not > >from > > > >an inner need but to an eye to grants, winning competitions, being > >invited > > > >to read, status in the the literary community, as it were, the result >is > > > >utter dullness. I could say more but I'd better not. > > > > > > > >Best > > > > > > > >Dave > > > > > > > > > > > >David Bircumshaw > > > > > > > >Leicester, England > > > > > > > >Home Page > > > > > > > >A Chide's Alphabet > > > > > > > >Painting Without Numbers > > > > > > > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Douglas Clark" > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:39 PM > > > >Subject: Padraic Fallon > > > > > > > > > > > >Just to say that I got the new Carcanet catalogue in this > > > >morning and see that in Autumn 2003 they intend issuing a > > > >new Padraic Fallon Selected POems to replace the out-of-print > > > >book that I have. I think it is the only book in the catalogue > > > >that I will buy as basically I part company with keeping > > > >up-to-date with poetry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask] > > > >Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... > >http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >- > > >---- > > >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >- > >---- > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.